Coaching discussion on Myth - Page 12

On July 19 2010 07:13 Spitfiree wrote: I think that his articles and the detailed comments on some hands is more than enough of an argument

You'll find that if we gave neilly 350$/h he'd come up with these said articles and equally tought provoking comments on hands. You'll also find alot of pros disagreeing with alot of what he preaches.

Anyways this thread is getting pointless unless Myth responds. It all comes down to ethics, and I personally think Myth and other coaches who cant beat the limits they teach should step down, work on their game then go back to coaching.

ps. not deldar anymore

im sure a ton of people can vouch for Hellmuth live play skills.

honestly i think dandydolly is wobbly smurfing

love
kingsofcards

lol
j/k about kingsofcards obv

i just stopped watching myths videos like 6months+ ago cuz i didnt agree with alot of the things he pointed out in his leakfinders, and i felt that my own reasoning and thoughs were better then his some of the times, mostly in his liveplay videos there was some times when i was just wtf is he doing? this is so bad.. (and im not that good, but im pretty sure its not my lack of understanding his points cuz its to advanced or something like that as u could expect from some sick nosebleed HU match as i think its his lack of experience of grinding online in the past years)

and i didnt even know his results were "that bad", or more that terrible samplesize from the last 2 years of online pokerz. i really think u should have been crushing the last 2 years of onlilnepokerz midstakes to coach it. since its changed alot in the past 2 years.

and i think this is pretty lols since there are sooo many random videomakers/coaches that isnt even beating the games they coach anymore, maybe they did 2 years ago but not anymore. but they still continue coaching without getting better themself.

i do though think myth is one of the better questionable coaches out there, since i like his way of talking about the leaks and points that he have in an easy understandable way.

at the same time i agree with that its his choice to set a price for his coaching. its up to the student to take it or leave it. even though my personal (from the opinion i have on him as a coach) its pretty much overkill to charge 350$/hr when there are 10x 1/2$ coaches out there who really crush the TODAYS games coach for like less then half that price.

would like it more if he charged xxx$/hr to coach live cashgames/live donkaments or w/e. but onlinepoker dosnt seem like his A+ forum at this moment? and i think both cardrunners and myth should look over it since its pretty sneaky imo to live on an old reputation to almost trick ppl into thinking its awsome and worth every penny when the avarage small winner at 1/2 online today is probably better themselfs at it then he is?

just my thoughts, based on the videos ive watched mostly (dont like em)

like the thread btw, havent cared much about stuff like this but almost all of the videosites outthere except bluefire have like 50% have like oldschool breakeven the last 2 years coaches. it dosnt bother me to much but i still think its gay

but i probably dont know to much so some1 should just shut me up

On July 19 2010 05:36 Stim_Abuser wrote: actually we might be wrong doomer/schoua.... i can't think of any fatties that are actually very good poker players. maybe degenyamine?

(stolen on 2+2)

Btw someone mentioned the earnings on this page as "+470k".

I think that it's just the prizes that he won, not prizes minus buy-ins, so clearly not +470k, and maybe losing $, can someone confirm?

This is just ridiculous. Totally agree w/Deldar and a lot of other ppl here.

It's
a) LOL to see losing players charging big amounts of money for coaching on stakes they don't even beat.
b) Bullshit to say they should not do this. There are people willing to pay these fees even with all tracking sites clearly indicating that the coach they are paying is not able to beat the stakes; let them.

Unless the coaches are hiding certain information or giving out wrong information about their abilities, they are in NO way scamming anyone out of his or her money. So unless Myth is afraid that this thread is going to harm his income by a decrease in studentnumbers, it seems absolutely useless for him to respond here.

On July 19 2010 07:52 MilZo wrote: Btw someone mentioned the earnings on this page as "+470k". I think that it's just the prizes that he won, not prizes minus buy-ins, so clearly not +470k, and maybe losing $, can someone confirm?

Hehe yeah didn't want to mention it, but given that he has played TONS of live tournaments according to FrinkX, he shouldn't have that much profit. I'm guessing he paid around 300-400k in tourney entrees (if he really played TONS), if not more.

On July 19 2010 07:52 MilZo wrote: Btw someone mentioned the earnings on this page as "+470k". I think that it's just the prizes that he won, not prizes minus buy-ins, so clearly not +470k, and maybe losing $, can someone confirm?

confirmed.

so say u play 100 donkuments a year with avg buyin of 2k over three years thats 600k worth of buyins.

On July 19 2010 06:08 Fraser wrote: Loco hating on myth and Frinkx because they got staked by peachy and hit some big scores is retarded. They went after what they wanted and got it without hurting anyone. You can't really call it lucky to get staked by peachy. Maybe if you asked nicely he would have staked you too.

lol how am i hating? what bad things have i said for me to qualify as a hater? i've done nothing but state the self-evident... i don't want to derail so i'll spoiler the rest:

+ Show Spoiler +

User was warned for this post - seriously, if we say 'stop derailing' it means: stop derailing.

On July 19 2010 05:48 dandydolly wrote:+ Show Spoiler + Let me preface this by saying I dont have much of wan idea who this guy is, but the nature of this thread irritated me, and I felt an urge to respond. Basically you are fairly pretty ignorant if you haven't realised that the majority of coaches aren't really winning players. Sorry guys. Think about it- everytime you coach someone you make the entire playing field X more difficult, while only having a minimal gain to yourself. Seems pretty stupid to affect your own bottom line by increasing a whole bunch of other peoples. That's not to say there aren't coaches who are big winners, but even those who are are likely to be holding back information in their videos. And thats just the guys who can actually win at poker. Then we can cycle through the extensive list of coaches who CANT win (After all, if you can't beat em, teach em). I don't love to pick on certain people when there are so many, but the primary examples are the 2m2mm guys. None of them are winning players, yet they are all charging absurd rates for coaching afaik. I really don't think charging someone 500$+ an hour to teach them how to do something YOU CAN'T DO is fair. So yeah, this example seems even more retarded. How you could possibly expect to be regarded as a player with a "respectable skill level" is beyond me if you can't rape 1/2 over 10k hands, let alone 150k. Let me take a second to talk about variance. No. There is absolutely no reason someone can't beat these limits over that long a stretch, unless it is indeed not them playing on the account, in which case you probably shouldn't be associating with them anyway. 350$ an hour is fkn absurd for someone who can't beat poker in its easiest form- and the funny thing is whoever this guy is, is one of many. I have heard multiple tales of these players who coach away at high rates yet aren't proficient at poker themselves. I'll give some leeway to say that there is definitely the possibilty that all these people are better suited to coaching than to playing, but that doesn't mean that their service is anywhere near justifiable. I wish I had had a lesson with a coach before, then I would feel more qualified to comment, but I still think you can hold most of what I say with credence... the proof is on paper. Which brings me to my next and most important point, is that if people WANT to buy coaching, then let them! and if some guy who can't teach poker WANTS to teach poker, let him! It's the BUYER that makes the decision, and its not like X coach is scamming us. (I assume) They present their case for coaching you with full honesty, and only if they don't does it become an ACTUAL issue of morality and ethics etc. which is the only time it should lead to some sort of blowup like this. What the fuck do you guys care anyway? Oh no! some guy who can't beat 1/2 is teaching a 3/6 reg how to play... uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... DAN HARRINGTON WROTE A BOOK ON HOW TO PLAY POKER PEOPLE BOUGHT IT PITCHFORKS PEOPLE -Deldar182 hope that wasnt too messy

but but but...
action dan is a genious

since a lot of this stuff is just about it being 350 an hour - i think almost all of corwins students are through profit sharing. i mean how many people really pay for more than 1-2-3 hours of coaching from a person. i dont see a big deal in charging more than your hourly for an hour of coaching. you're basically giving this person insight into your approach of poker and some things that are really unique to you. essentially you give him your perspective and then after an hour or two hes leaving. the first hour or two of coaching is going to be way more important than the 9-10th hour and im pretty sure that it never really gets that far. if i still coached now and someone only wanted one or two lessons i would charge an outrageous amount. (if for some reason the person kept coming back then you could reduce the amount per each lesson until you leveled out at a secondary rate)

i thought Deldar was summoned to support Myth or something.

And yeah i agree soooo many coaches arent winning players and they should be called out too, the fact is that what was exposed here is new for many people and Myth is a part of this community, the 2m2mm guys arent.

Also the fact that many loosing coaches are getting away with it is not a reason to keep it going, and yeah Myth can offer any coaching for any $ if somebody wants to pay its fine, but we are also in our right to have a thread like this.

On July 19 2010 08:30 PoorUser wrote: since a lot of this stuff is just about it being 350 an hour - i think almost all of corwins students are through profit sharing. i mean how many people really pay for more than 1-2-3 hours of coaching from a person. i dont see a big deal in charging more than your hourly for an hour of coaching. you're basically giving this person insight into your approach of poker and some things that are really unique to you. essentially you give him your perspective and then after an hour or two hes leaving. the first hour or two of coaching is going to be way more important than the 9-10th hour and im pretty sure that it never really gets that far. if i still coached now and someone only wanted one or two lessons i would charge an outrageous amount. (if for some reason the person kept coming back then you could reduce the amount per each lesson until you leveled out at a secondary rate)

Well its not just more than your hourly.. if he charged close to his hourly he had to pay to give lessons

On July 19 2010 09:35 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On July 19 2010 08:30 PoorUser wrote: since a lot of this stuff is just about it being 350 an hour - i think almost all of corwins students are through profit sharing. i mean how many people really pay for more than 1-2-3 hours of coaching from a person. i dont see a big deal in charging more than your hourly for an hour of coaching. you're basically giving this person insight into your approach of poker and some things that are really unique to you. essentially you give him your perspective and then after an hour or two hes leaving. the first hour or two of coaching is going to be way more important than the 9-10th hour and im pretty sure that it never really gets that far. if i still coached now and someone only wanted one or two lessons i would charge an outrageous amount. (if for some reason the person kept coming back then you could reduce the amount per each lesson until you leveled out at a secondary rate) Well its not just more than your hourly.. if he charged close to his hourly he had to pay to give lessons

rofl, sign me up when rate = his hourly

All these graphs show is that Myth isn't an online player. I'm not trying to defend Myth, but if the general idea is that he's a live player, then these stats just prove that. It might be nice to hear Myth 'explain' these stats and it seems like he's being very weird about the situation, but what can he really say?

I'd like to see Myth put in a month's worth of grinding online, just to show that he can win at the online stakes he's coaching though.

Baal may be a rat bastard but he's a funny rat bastard.

seriously don't expect him to come here and 'defend' himself. I don't even think he has to, and he probably feels the same way.

The facts are on the table, and it's up for his potential students to decided based on this and also on his student's testimonials if his coaching is worth it or not.

lol baalaments

On July 19 2010 11:49 Raidern wrote: seriously don't expect him to come here and 'defend' himself. I don't even think he has to, and he probably feels the same way. The facts are on the table, and it's up for his potential students to decided based on this and also on his student's testimonials if his coaching is worth it or not.

really? because i really think the whole insinuation that he might be account sharing hasn't been clarified at all.
I do agree that regarding the fact that he is a losing player at 1/2 non rush online, and he coaches a game he can't beat is telling, but may have some explanation that he could give that is plausible.
Having every one of his friends come here and vouch for him and give information that he has not verified simply hurts his case I.E

On July 18 2010 17:31 citizenwind wrote: @Etherone: I've gone through Corwin's coaching program and was very happy with the results. I often recommend $200nl, MTT, and Rush players to seek coaching from Corwin. I've also had informal lessons with Nutedawg and Haseeb Qureshi and feel like they were all comparable in coaching skill and information for the budding MSNL grinder, and often gave similar advice in certain situations (though they obviously have style differences). When I was choosing Corwin as a coach, I just saw this (http://www.bluffmagazine.com/players/corwin-cole/41688/player-profile.asp) and that was enough. It's like oh, -12k on FTP. Sucks. But then +470k. That's enough for me to think "Oh, clearly a winning player." If ya'll have any questions as my experience as a student, I'll be glad to answer them here! Toodles.

-first this player ignores the fact that the 470k+ wins do not include the costs he incurred to play so obviously he isn't up 470k live.
-second he is a CR coach who never came here except now, and presumably at Myth's request
-third even if myth was a provable live solid Tournament winner, he is selling
online cashgame coaching, which according to his own friends post he is down 12k
-fourth i can't even trust that he was even myth's student, especially without any demonstration of how he improved, or any corroboration by myth.

all in all i feel like it is expected of him to come here, defend himself, and clarify everything, especially when not doing so is only going to make it worse, but as i stated before it's his right not to.