Coaching discussion on Myth - Page 14

So we have no actual evidence that he can or cannot beat 1/2, and certainly no evidence Myth can beat 5/10 as his CR details implies. Also, we're supposed to believe his friends (or students who are friendly towards him) who vouch for his poker skills with no details of results or effectiveness.

I'm not discrediting Myth but I'm just thinking about how much a reputation at a site like Liquidpoker is worth. And the actual benefits of 3 hours of coaching.

There's no actual way of marking the effectiveness of coaching, because it's all subjective. When one piece of insight or advice may help one poker player, may not actually help another player or may actually be detrimental. In my opinion the best indicator of a skilled and good coach is undeniable results, who can crush their stakes.

Who would you rather have coach you, a guy making 4bb/100 over 200,000 hands or a guy who's friends with a lot of people, but is down $12k in the stakes that he is teaching?

It actually surprises me that he is actually selling his services successfully with his stats and nothing else except for a good reputation and respect of some forum regulars.

It is evident however that he's been around and has some decent results in real life. So as always, supply and demand. If you think it's worth it, more power to you.

I think until poker establishes a legitimate organization that grants credentials and hosts information about all available coaches certified to it's standards there aren't going to be many changes. The main people who should want this are the good coaches. When you can put a little sticker on your coaching profile that says you're certified by a legitimate organization that is well known and respected business goes up a ton. It also weeds out the scammers who steal your customers.

On July 19 2010 12:49 Etherone wrote: -first this player ignores the fact that the 470k+ wins do not include the costs he incurred to play so obviously he isn't up 470k live. -second he is a CR coach who never came here except now, and presumably at Myth's request -third even if myth was a provable live solid Tournament winner, he is selling online cashgame coaching, which according to his own friends post he is down 12k -fourth i can't even trust that he was even myth's student, especially without any demonstration of how he improved, or any corroboration by myth. all in all i feel like it is expected of him to come here, defend himself, and clarify everything, especially when not doing so is only going to make it worse, but as i stated before it's his right not to.

1. Actually, his overall wins are more than 470k, I was just quoting the Bluff figure.

2. I can speak for myself. Myth never asked me to say anything. It's also B.S. for people to ask for students to come forward and offer their viewpoint, and then say "Oh Myth asked him."

3. Myth also coaches MTTs and live play.

4. I'm a guest instructor for Cardrunners, for whatever that's worth. The fact that Myth coached me is easily verifiable by many people in the community, including Pooruser. And I have no idea how to demonstrate how I improved. Wanna sweat me? o__0

On July 19 2010 16:35 flounder44 wrote: + Show Spoiler + For myth's student it was only 100$ an hr but he played the SAME stakes as me at the time (200nl). I even took a few buyins from him at the 6m table and I'm also on some of the CR videos where he sweated his students. But anyhow i reached a block in poker and contacted this guy for lessons. He seemed really strict and if i was late 1 minute for lesson the whole thing would be off. He didn't explain to me how to work Teamspeak and setup the comp viewer thing where you can see each others comp. He just told me to install the programs which I did. I had already payed the lesson about a week ahead of time and finally when the lesson began I asked him how to work teamspeak and he threw the biggest fit and cancelled the lesson and gave back the 100$. From what i gather these "poker pro teachers" have pretty good people skills and can get their thoughts about the game very effectively which is why they are so popular. It doesn't mean they are winning poker players themselves. Secondly, I kind of get that they feel above everyone and will not take the time to negotiate things unless it's under their terms only. What i get from their attitudes is that they berate everyone and get pissed if people dont think the way they do or dont understand certain things on their level which I think is wrong.

just to clarify if i've read this right- most of your qualms seem to be with how myth's student conducts himself and are probably not particularly relevant here

On July 19 2010 17:40 n0rthf4ce wrote: if you are indeed skeptical, you can always go for an hour and then reassess.

No you can't it's not free is it.

haha wp

roooofl

Haters gonna hate...
Wish more people in here would take a simple economics course to actually learn the idea of supply and demand.

If his coaching did not work he would not be able to charge the rate he does and continually have students. Which he does charge that rate, and it does have students.

You ask for testimonials..... there have been some, then you disregard stating some reason or another.

This totally sounded like the Obama old man river 3rd presidential debate. Where obama would say ideas and plans. Then old man river would essentially say obama is a douchebag and democrats suck in a variety of ways because he had no solutions and no ideas of his own.

Anyone who says its outrageous for him to charge what he does imo is a complete and total idiot for the simple fact that it is a successful operation. Myth would be stupid for charging less just to please a couple people who are jealous of his gig.

Stop bashing someone who is clearly better than you in the business world because --he doesn't have great ptr results-- which ptr up in the air if its truely accurate cause some say yes some say no. I got no personal beef with anyone in here except Pooruser and frinkx. Pooruser because i'm ridiculously jealous of his accomplishments and wish i could do what he has done. and Frinkx because he's just a bad ass for many various reasons. You would all do well to be as good at life as these two are and they both have mad respect for Myth and his game.

Stop fueling a fire because you have nothing else to do....

Bottom line.... He charges it.... and many many people are willing to pay it. The results speak for themselves in the fact that he always has applications for students...just because you think he's rigging crap or living off is reputation which is above reproach in virtually everyones eyes who has ever met him (Wow i wonder why that is??) does not give you the right to go after him which is clearly what your doing... Directly and indirectly

On July 19 2010 17:40 n0rthf4ce wrote: I really didn't want to post in this thread, but I'm going to post a short blurb. When evaluating the effectiveness of any product, the best and most honest assessment of the product should come from past consumers. In this case, the consumers are current and past students of Corwin's. I have only ever heard students of his hold him in the highest esteem, past and present. Corwin has excellent poker knowledge and great fundamentals, but what makes him a great coach and separate from other coaches are his preparation and eloquence. He is one of the best teachers I know, not just pokerwise. Regarding Corwin's PTR graphs, I cannot honestly say why they are as they are. Many things can affect our lives that cause our games to deteriorate, even over months at a time. I know I was affected in a similar way once. Although it may seem fair to associate his PTR graphs with his coaching ability and poker knowledge, and for some it may seem like the only tangible piece of evidence that can hold a coach in any sort of esteem, I ask you this: would you rather be coached by biggest PTR winner with consistent bad reviews from his past students, or be coached by someone with good reviews from 100% of his students who, for one reason or another, has a losing PTR graph over 100k+ hands? Corwin is a great coach. I vouch for his abilities, and if you are indeed skeptical, you can always go for an hour and then reassess. If you don't like the product, don't use it anymore. If you do, keep using it. If you give it a shot though, I'm certain you'll find his coaching will be worth your time. edit: added spacing for readability.

I agree with this to an extent. It doesn't really matter how well prepared and how nice your presentations are if the information isn't actually good in the long term. There are plenty of scam artists who work based upon making the consumer like them, or presenting their information in a way that pleases them. I am definitely not saying this is or isn't the case, I don't know.

But personally, rather than quit poker - lots of people told me I should coach cash games instead. I myself have a positive winrate, albeit a low one. However, I didn't consider it good enough for me to actually be teaching other players. It definitely didn't seem ethical to me.

I can't think of any job where you are in the right teaching other people when you aren't proficient at it yourself. But maybe myth teaches something he doesn't follow himself. Or maybe he's ran bad for 150k hands, I don't really know. Just my 2 cents.

P.S: $350/hr is ridiculous for anything other than very high stakes. It's my opinion that anyone trying to sell their coaching for this wage is either one of the best players in the world who have some kind of higher knowledge to give their students, or they are a scumbag and are conning idiots into paying way more than lessons are worth.

José Mário dos Santos Félix Mourinho, born 26 January 1963 in Setúbal, Portugal, is a Portuguese football manager and the current manager of Spanish La Liga team Real Madrid C.F. He has the nickname "The Special One", a self-proclaimed title which was later taken up by the British media.

The son of Portuguese goalkeeper José Félix Mourinho, Mourinho started out as a player but he was dissatisfied with his lack of skill and switched to management.

On July 19 2010 19:46 HaiVan wrote: José Mário dos Santos Félix Mourinho, born 26 January 1963 in Setúbal, Portugal, is a Portuguese football manager and the current manager of Spanish La Liga team Real Madrid C.F. He has the nickname "The Special One", a self-proclaimed title which was later taken up by the British media. The son of Portuguese goalkeeper José Félix Mourinho, Mourinho started out as a player but he was dissatisfied with his lack of skill and switched to management.

Teams managed
1990–1991 Estrela Amadora (assistant)
1993–1994 Porto (assistant)
1996–2000 Barcelona (assistant)
2000 Benfica
2001–2002 União de Leiria
2002–2004 Porto
2004–2007 Chelsea
2008–2010 Internazionale
2010– Real Madrid

Not like he started charging people 350/hr out of the blue.
Sport coaches work their way up.

im not taking any sides here i just posted it for the lulz

In sports you can be limited by physical limitations. for instance something might be +EV in sports but ur just unable to execute it properly because maybe ur not fast enough or ur a little short or for whatever reason u can't get the muscle memory down.

In poker. If the K comes on the turn and you think its +EV to bet u bet. if your a winning player you make money in the long run with these actions. there is no limitation other than your own mental inabilities. THEREFORE if you can teach someone to bet that K on the turn in that spot because its +EV. Then your not gonna be playing urself and when the king peels off go "OMG what do i do, omfg omfg omfg i dunno wtf i should do"

I think the comparison of poker and sports in regards to coaching is totally retarded. :

On July 19 2010 20:41 DooMeR wrote: In sports you can be limited by physical limitations. for instance something might be +EV in sports but ur just unable to execute it properly because maybe ur not fast enough or ur a little short or for whatever reason u can't get the muscle memory down. In poker. If the K comes on the turn and you think its +EV to bet u bet. if your a winning player you make money in the long run with these actions. there is no limitation other than your own mental inabilities. THEREFORE if you can teach someone to bet that K on the turn in that spot because its +EV. Then your not gonna be playing urself and when the king peels off go "OMG what do i do, omfg omfg omfg i dunno wtf i should do" I think the comparison of poker and sports in regards to coaching is totally retarded. :

Is it really? Why are mental attributes and physical attributes so different?

For example, lets say we have a guy who through years of torment or abuse cannot take any negative treatment. You tell him "hey dude your shirt is a little funny" and he would snap and bust your nose open. Do you think this guy could win at poker? What if I told you that he had a genius level IQ, photographic memory, and can solve the most complex math functions. Do you think this guy would ever win? What about the manic depressive who believes the world is against him? Or someone who is so frail that anything negative occurs they crawl in the corner and cry? Would these types be good poker players? Could many of them analyze poker situations in an objective manner when it doesn't involve them at all?

I read through all posts and i'd like express my appreciation to StealCity, Nazgul, Loco, Ket, Pooruser and Peachy for what they wrote. Here is my 2 cents on the subject.

* IMHO his past and present students are not the best indication of his coaching abilities because Myth can handpick the more promising ones and make a name for himself as a coach through their success. EDIT:The ones who got negative experience are less likely to come forth

* There is nothing wrong with Myth telling students off. It directly influences his income from coaching when he has a profit-sharing deal. He isn't claiming to be a miracle-worker.

* Should a coach have to reveal his hem/ptr screenshots to be credible? I strongly feel it is a matter between coach & client/student and can be arranged so that both parties are satisfied.

* To be a coach for 2/4 i think it is a prerequisite to be able to beat limits higher than that. Would you get a coach playing the same limit as yourself? I wouldn't. I think advertising yourself beating highstakes just for being able to sell yourself to midstakes players is unethical.

* There is no way Myth is getting nailed to the cross on LP to set an example for douchebaggy coaches out there.

Edit2: If you write something retarded it wastes infinite amounts of time for people who actually take interest and read.

- cariadon

myth must be loving how this thread is derailing
I'm too
lets talk about boobs

troll_x

On July 19 2010 18:44 halflinggenius wrote:

On July 19 2010 20:51 Maynard! wrote: Show nested quote + On July 19 2010 20:41 DooMeR wrote: In sports you can be limited by physical limitations. for instance something might be +EV in sports but ur just unable to execute it properly because maybe ur not fast enough or ur a little short or for whatever reason u can't get the muscle memory down. In poker. If the K comes on the turn and you think its +EV to bet u bet. if your a winning player you make money in the long run with these actions. there is no limitation other than your own mental inabilities. THEREFORE if you can teach someone to bet that K on the turn in that spot because its +EV. Then your not gonna be playing urself and when the king peels off go "OMG what do i do, omfg omfg omfg i dunno wtf i should do" I think the comparison of poker and sports in regards to coaching is totally retarded. : Is it really? Why are mental attributes and physical attributes so different? For example, lets say we have a guy who through years of torment or abuse cannot take any negative treatment. You tell him "hey dude your shirt is a little funny" and he would snap and bust your nose open. Do you think this guy could win at poker? What if I told you that he had a genius level IQ, photographic memory, and can solve the most complex math functions. Do you think this guy would ever win? What about the manic depressive who believes the world is against him? Or someone who is so frail that anything negative occurs they crawl in the corner and cry? Would these types be good poker players? Could many of them analyze poker situations in an objective manner when it doesn't involve them at all?