Coaching discussion on Myth - Page 16

chill out you guys...

One thing that might help him is if students would out their screennames to show us the results following the coaching they've gotten from myth...

On July 20 2010 00:01 dandydolly wrote: tutz_x seriously can u stop derailing u moron?

my exact thoughts

pls let this thread be useful and informative instead of just publicly making fun and just bashing someone, especially myth. i dont think that was steal's intention when he made this thread anyway. honestly i dunno where this is headed anyway since myth obviously is put in a lose lose situation at this point even if he tries to explain/defend himself with all the bias on both sides already drawn out


but that blog made me lol

i went through 16 pages reading every post, waiting for myth's opinions on the subject, and sadly there was none
thats what i would do, if i was the coach beeing questioned is this thread and i didnt have anything to counter argument the OP
no way in hell i would stay quiet in a thread that is questioning my reputation, if i could beat the stakes i coach and let my business go downhill

On July 18 2010 07:04 [vital]Myth wrote: i play mostly live i've dumped a bunch of money being a retard online in the past year or so, but i'm getting sick of all this crap about my PTRs so i've started a quest to save Diagonals. here's results since june 1. laptop: desktop:

does this post not exist or what? he is beating the main limit he coaches, is he not?


idk i guess rush poker doesn't count now for some bizarre reason :O

and w/e I'm not posting again in here, already said my piece

this means nothing dude
lol rush poker

i know myth's had it on him, back in the days i used to play 1/2 with him and he was very good, i didnt like having him at my table
im just disappointed from the lack of attention from him to this thread, its making him look like he cant beat online poker anymore

people saying: supply and demand regulate the market, so Myth is fine with charging $350/hour need to shut up. I am studying economics, and the theory of this works in a perfect market, but no market is perfect, secondly this only applies in the long term.
Someone mentioned it already: Getting information about other offers is one criteria of a market, and this is exactly what happens in this thread. And believe me, Vital[myth] won't be able to charge this much money in the long run, as soon as this gets more public.

This is very questionable imo, plus the aspect, that Myth might have shared his account (read statement in OP's post) has not been discussed at all.

All in all, looks shabby to me.

coaching at rhino is 400$ an hour

350$ a bargain

On July 20 2010 02:15 Rekrul wrote: coaching at rhino is 400$ an hour 350$ a bargain

good comparison. really, coz both are a massive waste of money.

I will weigh in here. I have not been coached by myth. My only interaction with him has been through these boards, his doing a CR leakfinders video on my play, and meeting him briefly in Vegas a few weeks ago. Additionally, people who read this site extensively have probably noted a few of my posts where I am skeptical of many coaching offers, including the micro stakes coaching that myth advertised on the part of his students.

I will begin with the point of poker coach versus sports coach. In sports there is the knowledge of technique and strategy (where applicable) and then there is execution. Coaches do not need to be able to execute to instruct well. A track coach does not need to run an under 10s 100m dash to train an athlete to do it who has the physical ability to accomplish the feat. In that case the coach will guide the training, regimen, and help train the proper technique.

Poker is different because strategy/technique and execution are one and the same. If you know what to do, you should be able to do it. There is nothing in the way of a person who knows how to play properly in certain situation that can keep that person from making those plays. Even in sports such as golf, this is not the case because knowledge of proper technique, strategy, and training regimen does not guarantee the ability to execute. In poker if you know how, you can do it yourself. If you can't, then you simply don't know how.

The above does not imply that there is absolutely nothing that a poker coach who lacks a certain level of playing ability can teach a person who seeks to attain said level of ability. There are some things they can teach, they are just not things about specifically how to actually play poker. They can help a person work on tilt issues, table selection, living habits/self-management, general guidelines etc. Myth himself mentioned some of those things in the thread (http://www.liquidpoker.net/poker-forum/822617/all/Mid-Stakes_Coaching!.html) where he advertised his coaching (and was called out by a few well-regraded members of this community for running a worthless scam right there). That sort of instruction is certainly not worthless and can help a person with potential become more successful. Even some general ideas such as not playing robotically, getting into the habit of analyzing your own game, and even catching some specific obvious mistakes that result from bad habits can help people improve their actual poker playing if they get an already-capable person thinking more about their own game. However, one thing that such person absolutely cannot teach is how to actually play poker. This is a very important distinction and one that potential students have to understand.

As testament that, even if we assume that Myth cannot beat NL200 online, there are spots where he can help players that consistently beat NL200, I will bring up the CR leakfinders that he did on my play. As topic of that video, myth picked bet sizing. He selected a few spots where he commented on my bet sizing being either too big or too small based on what he thought my opponents were willing to call/fold to. While I disagreed with some (not all) specific things he said, his comments set me on a thinking path that lead me to implement new bet-sizing strategies into my game. They were not something myth himself suggested, but picking certain aspects of his thinking process and tying them into my game was certainly worthwhile. I did most of the work, the ability used was all mine, but myth was a helpful part of the process.

So with all of that said, I have no doubt there are certainly things of value that myth can teach people through a structured program. However, that does justify his misrepresenting of his poker-playing ability, if he did in fact do so. First of all, it would distort the true value of what he can offer his students. If he cannot say, "hey guys sit down and do like I do, and you WILL beat these stakes," that's something his students should know. Moreover, it would properly focus his students' attention on things of value that he can, in fact, offer. He can teach organization skills, bankroll management, emotional control, and point out things to think ABOUT while deciding how to play. Then students with ability can use those basics to improve their own play. These aspects alone can be extremely helpful, legit and valuable service.

Second, it is simply dishonest. On the other end of the spectrum from a good service I described in the above paragraph is a system where myth would use his reputation from this site and CR to get people to buy into his sales pitch, pick the most promising of them who would have done just fine on their own, have them go through a nice friendly seminar where he appears knowledgeable speaking from a pedestal of authority, and then claim their success as mostly due to his training to get more students in the future. That is a scam, and a good one.

So if myth does in fact falsely advertise his own ability, it is a problem even if a lot of what he offers is a legitimately useful service. He should be up-front about it. Those other coaches people bring up who helped extremely successful players likely never claimed to be able to accomplish things they could not, which made what offered clear and easy to place, evaluate, and use. Misrepresenting your own skills in that context is certainly a disservice to anyone you are trying to teach. Not to mention it inhibits potential students' ability to evaluate whether or not the service is worth it for them. Were I considering myth as a coach, I would most certainly expect clear answers and proof of his poker-playing ability before I agreed to enter into any sort of arrangement, especially at the prices he sets.

While myth does not really owe a response to anyone in this thread, since we are not trying to get coaching from him, his silence outside of the one post he made in the beginning is likely not the best way to handle this as far as public opinion of him goes. It would certainly help his case to make some sort of more elaborate statement on the issue without getting into silly flame wars. His silence really does put a negative spin on this.

On July 20 2010 02:15 Rekrul wrote: coaching at rhino is 400$ an hour 350$ a bargain

oh rekrul you always make me lol

Phexac pretty much summed up my thoughts here, and some of you are fucking lunatics

guys,

at the time my coaching profile was created on CR, everything stated in it was true. i was beating 5/10 and 10/20 when i joined CR and started coaching. edit: so i e-mailed CR forum mods and asked them to change my profile post. i played primarily on prima back then, and then rednines closed and took most of my online BR. since then i've never really recovered back to that point online. the only thing i can do to restore my reputation is to play a bunch of hands and show good results right? that's what i said i would do, and am doing. and when i have a good sample to show you, i'll also address every other issue/question posed in this thread.

expect a blog post around month's end. i don't really have ANY option here but to just put my money where my mouth is, show good results, and explain whatever people want to know from there. but i need time to put in some volume now that i am playing online again. don't worry, it's coming

also, all of my students look at my PTRs and ask me about my live results before we start. 95% of the lessons that i give are NOT at the $350/hr rate, but rather go to my long-term students who have a deal that is 100% based on profit sharing. i only get a few hours per month at the $350 rate, from people who don't want the long-term program. that means that i basically only coach people who will never pay me unless they succeed. furthermore, EVERY long-term student receives a FREE 60-90 minute interview lesson, where both of us can decide whether or not we want to continue. to date, i have interviewed with several dozen potential students, and 2 have declined my program. no student of mine has ever been misled about my abilities or my results. when i have enough of a sample to prove myself, i'll post testimonials from them too

cheers

moneys is for monkeys

--- Nuked ---

That sounds reasonable, i think the opinions of corwin's close friends cannot taken seriously since they probably lack objectivity.

On the "sports managers" discussion it is not if its physical or not, its more about the manager being a strategist, not a player... just see Maradona ffs, clearly a genius player, and a fucking moron in everything else.

Also the "past users are the best measure" is not really true, as i said earlier... ask homeopathy patients people are usually not critical enough of what they buy, maybe because they dont like to feel like they have wasted their money.

Personally a few words from Myth loooong time ago helped me a lot, it wasnt really coaching it was just a vague idea, i guess he is a decent coach, but for that fame i think he should really have much more stuff to back it up.

I don't really see the problem about all this, if you dont like how the deal sounds, don't buy it!
Damn every commersial is overrating their product.

I don't really know anything from Myths stats or archivements, but from my pow this is just a fucked up witchhunt like he would have scammed ppl, wich from what i have read havent happend.


Btw Myth, all publicity is good publicity´

also, i only have 2 real reasons for ever rejecting a student in my program (and if you ask them, you will find that i have made very generous compromises for many of them to get in):

1. they are too tilty. this is almost always evident in the interview session. i don't believe that people who are naturally VERY emotionally unstable are the types of people that i can teach. i have what i believe are some good perspectives on emotional control and balance, but there are some cases i just don't feel qualified to help. i've rejected 2 or 3 people in the past based on seeing that they are very tilty in the interview.
2. they don't take instruction well. some people have too much of an ego and no matter what i tell them, they are trying to find reason to disagree with me. it's always ironic that they are seeking coaching and not trusting their coach. i've rejected 2 or 3 people for this reason as well.

i don't hand-pick people who have the most potential, i just deny people whom i don't think i can teach. so yeah i am selective in who i will coach FOR PROFIT SHARING, but anyone who pays for lessons upfront will receive them regardless. not all of my profit-sharing students have been successful - there have been a couple that i've just failed completely, and they haven't paid me, because that's how my program works and i don't deserve payment if i don't help them succeed. the rest are all doing well, to various degrees, and have never complained to me about the program, nor to anyone else afaik.

the main reason why most people who apply for my program don't get in is that they refuse to attend an in-person seminar or they don't meet my minimum requirements, which is understandable obviously, but i can't just take them on their word that they will pay when i don't even get a chance to meet them in person and have them sign a contract in front of me.

It's good to see myth posting in the thread at last. What he's saying is fair enough in my book--the situation should become quite a bit clearer once he makes that blog post. kudos for taking this issue head-on.