Coaching discussion on Myth - Page 20

my personal opinion of this thread

On July 20 2010 18:41 albonycee wrote: interesting how Steal City makes a thread bashing the most successful coach on LP right after he himself enters the coaching business. this coaching thing confuses me a bit, someone with good results who sucks at teaching is regarded with higher esteem than someone w/o the results who excels it.

first off I haven't "entered the coaching world" and people have the right to criticize my coaching. Something like 16 people showed interest in my coaching

I denied a few of them and I didn't follow through with a lot because I don't want to be giving more than a few lessons a week. It's all too much.

I've been coaching in between 50nl and 1/2 and charging 50$ to 100$ a lesson. My lessons have generally run over the time, sometimes 30 mins (for a 2 hour lesson) not including set up time and I haven't charged them extra. I'm up well over 117.5k (running 4.6 above EV ) this year and something like 34.7k this month (running a few below EV). I'm 99% sure I've made over 100$ an hour so far this year as I haven't been grinding much at all (esp the first few months).. MOST importantly, my bb/100 is 6.67 for the year. 191k hands. My largest sample 1knl where I've played 36.3k hands and am up well over 1$ a hand EV adjusted. I've been lazy and only played 668 hours this year and i'm running at 176$ and hour.

I believe I'm incredibly articulate and explain things very well. I've wished I could be a feel player as I think theory and understanding things can always be learned but "feel" maybe not since it's abstract and too soft a science now. I have very good understanding of the game which basically allows me to explain in depth the reason for every single move I do.

I wanted to coach because I thought it'd be a little fun. But i'm never going to depend on it and I'm going to make sure there are no misrepresentations of my skill and abilities.

Anyway. I'm not the person in question and if you would like to make another thread about whether I should be coaching please do. I don't think you will though because you would make an ass of yourself. But do it. Your word has weight, doesn't it? I mean you wouldn't say something implying what you just did without reason would you? Go ahead and make the thread about me.

I asked Myth about his coaching before I made this thread. He wouldn't give me answers. So I'm going to make him give answers. Some people feel it's wrong. I would feel like I was scum had I not done anything about this and many people empathize. I have been a victim of scams by Darkxpert, Luminous and somewhat neilly... and many other times IRL. Myth has the right to sell his coaching for what he wants and I have the right to question it especially under such circumstances. I

I am satisfied with his responses (that he will answer the questions - but we haven't gotten anywhere near enough answers yet) and I think people should be thinking of questions to have him address in his blog. (since if I recall he said he would answer all questions) I will make a list of questions myself. I had no beef with Myth before this and have had him on AIM for years and we had a few convos. I have no reason besides this to dislike him. The way I made this thread may have been too provocative (perhaps the title should be changed / ) but I learned out about Myth and that many people in the community were already aware of what I stated in the OP. The fact that no one made a stink about it before disgusted me. I have been a heavy contributor to this site and I was unaware this was semi-known on LP and with CardRunners and LP vouching for him (in one way or anything) and with so many big reputations (which are personal friends - no offense pooruser but your banning me and closing the thread because you "... [were] sick of it" shows that people can be biased when acting with their friend in mind... because banning me and closing the topic for that reason was a no-no i would say.

Sorry for the lack of brevity in my post. I didn't mean for people to bash myth... but I did and do mean for Myth to lose his reputation if he does not provide satisfactory answers to the questions. Does that make me an asshole in the eyes of his friends and a good part of LP... yes? But some of his own friends took light shots at him in that previous thread. And at least one of his own friends has suggested that, if you pick a bunch of very good players to coach... their game will have likely improved even without you.

I'm not the person to judge myth. But I think that if naz does judge him to have committed a grave unethical mal... he should at least alleviate him of his MOD and greenstar or whatever credentials he has. CardRunners should do the same. CR is associated with FTP. Although CR shouldn't be responsible for constantly evaluating their coaches or for bad practices their coaches may do... they should reconsider things in the face of new information. Imagine a country where hopsitals are not responsible for their doctors but instead an outside committee who evaluates the doctors are. If the hospital becomes aware of a serious problem with the doctor they have an ethical duty to report it. Just as if you were a doctor and you found out your fellow doctor friend had a serious drug problem which might impair his surgical abilities.

I'm sure Myth is working very hard now strictly on his online game. His BB/100 has already increased in one of his accounts since the creation of this thread. I think aejones said he could train a monkey to beat 2/4 if he had enough time. (no offense) All this pressure is good for Myth and maybe this thread will change the course of his financial success for the better greatly even if it ruins his coaching.... I can testify to major financial difficulties paying for college as more than just a contributor to my success.


A list of questions from me for Myth will come in the next couple of days. I will try to make the list as short and concise as possible.

Anyway, sorry for the long post... that happens when I have to defend myself.

On July 20 2010 21:14 whamm! wrote: Uploaded with ImageShack.us

mmm... i think Mephisto would have been a more fitting nickname , too bad i picked it before D2 came out.

Actually I think training sites should be super careful about who they let in to be lecturers and must continue to track their progress to ensure they're fit to stay on as a coach. It just seems like smart business for the sites to avoid any potentially damning scandal to their reputation

also albonycee, where do u get that I suck at teaching? Is it just because I can make more playing poker than I can from my reputation after less than 10 lessons? I've only done a handful of lessons. But I think I could get the people who have taken lessons from me to chime in if you want. If I got 2 people to say I was a good coach, that would be more than the students of myth that have vouched for him (am i right or am i not remembering something in the thread)?

Remind you also I've probably had 1/20 or even smaller the number of student's myth has had and I've been coaching... for what? less than a month?

On July 21 2010 00:25 gawdawaful wrote: Actually I think training sites should be super careful about who they let in to be lecturers and must continue to track their progress to ensure they're fit to stay on as a coach. It just seems like smart business for the sites to avoid any potentially damning scandal to their reputation

not if people don't make a stink about something that should have been questioned 1 year ago

I never knew Steal City before and got coached by him after I hit a downswing in nl100. Paid him relatively cheaprate (50 an hour) and I was satisfied by his coaching. Plugged in some leaks and adjusted my preflop game a little bit.

That being said I don't have anything against Myth, just clarifying that Steal City helped me out fine.

Steal City youre one devious mother fucker :D

I now know who to call if i want some coaching.

On July 21 2010 01:14 Maynard! wrote: Steal City youre one devious mother fucker :D I now know who to call if i want some coaching.

lol i'll quit coaching if people think this was self-motivated

i dont get how im the only one who realizes baal is awesome

On July 21 2010 00:26 Steal City wrote: also albonycee, where do u get that I suck at teaching? Is it just because I can make more playing poker than I can from my reputation after less than 10 lessons? I've only done a handful of lessons. But I think I could get the people who have taken lessons from me to chime in if you want. If I got 2 people to say I was a good coach, that would be more than the students of myth that have vouched for him (am i right or am i not remembering something in the thread)? Remind you also I've probably had 1/20 or even smaller the number of student's myth has had and I've been coaching... for what? less than a month?

i never said u suck at coaching. the second part of my post was just a general statement.

anyways there is no need to get all defensive about my post, like i said, i just found your timing interesting thats all.

that is, if there is a genuine general consensus not involving myth's personal friends

but look at me, i'm derailing my own thread. So plz make another thread if someone thinks this is an issue. I'm not going to respond here

On July 21 2010 00:09 Steal City wrote: The fact that no one made a stink about it before disgusted me. I have been a heavy contributor to this site and I was unaware this was semi-known on LP and with CardRunners and LP vouching for him (in one way or anything) and with so many big reputations (which are personal friends - no offense pooruser but your banning me and closing the thread because you "... [were] sick of it") shows that people can be biased when acting with their friend in mind... because banning me and closing the topic for that reason was a no-no i would say.

i banned you because i a)felt you were trolling like usual when you aim'd myth to ask him about lessons when you had no intention of taking them and b) posted the aim log and only blanked out your own name. that i think myth is a good player and you are on occasion an awful troll is not a product of me being friends with myth - its a product of my experience through watching myth play a large amount of hands and having to read through your insufferable posts on a daily basis

thats it.

The sauce is weak.

Call me crazy but I sense some jealousy from Steal City here. He's just begun offering coaching and he's probably not getting too much of a bite. To top off his frustration he sees v[ital]Myth big dick ballin' it up charging kids $350/hr and is swimming in cash. Damn, that would irk me too.

On July 21 2010 02:16 RICHI8 wrote: Call me crazy but I sense some jealousy from Steal City here. He's just begun offering coaching and he's probably not getting too much of a bite. To top off his frustration he sees v[ital]Myth big dick ballin' it up charging kids $350/hr and is swimming in cash. Damn, that would irk me too.

His motives are meaningless his questioning is valid and necessary.

Hmmmm seems like the root of this argument may be the manifestation of people having different priorities regarding basic values. I don't know Myth or Loco or anyone arguing here for that matter, I'm simply an LP lurker, but for what it's worth everyone on here seems very intelligent + introspective and simply at some point or another in this complex (or simple depending how you look at it) topic has fallen into a bit of the human condition (call it what you will - ego, pride etc.) Definitely impressed with all your abilities in the realm of logic and also intimidated because I at some point aspire to be a solid winning poker player. Looks like I can't just rely on a little intelligence.

On July 21 2010 02:16 RICHI8 wrote: Call me crazy but I sense some jealousy from Steal City here. He's just begun offering coaching and he's probably not getting too much of a bite. To top off his frustration he sees v[ital]Myth big dick ballin' it up charging kids $350/hr and is swimming in cash. Damn, that would irk me too.

no jealousy. It's a coincidence that i decided to do a little coaching and I have not been aggressive at all about it. I spent more time defending myself with that one post in this thread then i did advertising my coaching. I mainly wanted to do it... and may continue to do it because it helps fight the complacency and auto-piloting that happens when you run good or bad. When I find myself drifting like that... coaching or shadowing critically always snaps me back because you can't auto-pilot a coaching session. My emotion stems strictly from a contempt for unethical business practices.

http://www.liquidpoker.net/blog/viewblog.php?id=819398

check this out. Do you think I did this and wasted so much time because I was jealous of neilly or for personal gain?

As I said, create another thread and don't derail this one. Comments about me can be started in another thread.

On July 21 2010 02:26 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On July 21 2010 02:16 RICHI8 wrote: Call me crazy but I sense some jealousy from Steal City here. He's just begun offering coaching and he's probably not getting too much of a bite. To top off his frustration he sees v[ital]Myth big dick ballin' it up charging kids $350/hr and is swimming in cash. Damn, that would irk me too. His motives are meaningless his questioning is valid and necessary.

I haven't really read too much of this thread, nor do I give a fuck about either of these people, but speaking from a marketing stand point there's a couple important things to consider before demanding for Myth's head:

1. Does Myth market his services as "You should buy lessons from me because I'm a winner" or as "You should buy lessons from me because I'll make you a better poker player."

2. Do the people that purchase Myth's lessons feel like they are getting value for their money? People who don't feel like they are getting a good value for a product they have purchased would speak up and question the product. To my understanding this has never happened with Myth. As a potential consumer Steal City has the right to raise the question of if Myth is a winner or not. However, I really doubt that Steal City was interested in purchasing lessons from Myth but that isn't of importance anyway.

I also feel that whether someone is a winner or not at poker isn't really a fair judgement of whether they should be allowed to offer coaching services or not. Most top college sport players were below average at the sport they played but have an amazing eye for other's abilities. But, if Myth was endorsing his services by saying he's a winner and if it turns out that he isn't, then that would be considered scamming.

If Myth was some dirt bag this thread wouldn't even be 2 pages long. We would all laugh, say I told you so, and move on. Perhaps the poker community should shoulder some of the blame in that they look for coaches based on their pretty PTR/HEM graphs and not their coaching abilities. Similarly, I feel that the coaches way of seeking payment in hourly rates is becoming a little out dated. Perhaps a better way to show you are confident in your ability to coach instead of PTR graphs would be written contracts for profit percentages, lessons, and a one time booking fee initially at the most. In the "real" world consultants, coaches, investors, and other occupations as such are brought in on contracts usually based on performance. It completely baffles how a society as up on performance as poker players implemented some retarded per hour system to begin with.

at page 21 it isnt really worth it to post without reading at least most of the thread, both of your points have been discussed many times in the thread.