Coaching discussion on Myth - Page 21

[x]would definitely want to get coaching from baal on trolling

On July 21 2010 03:19 whamm! wrote: [x]would definitely want to get coaching from baal on trolling

why would you think he is trolling?

On July 21 2010 01:32 nolan wrote: i dont get how im the only one who realizes baal is awesome

ur not alone, lp is nothing w/o baals hate

On July 20 2010 22:55 Matt98568 wrote: Show nested quote + On July 20 2010 21:01 Baal wrote: Nothing like moral lessons from the Rhino discount club. Next time your doing your rally races make to please fly off the cliff. If I ever end up anything like you I seriously would do this without hesitation. All seriousness I like Myths videos alot and he articulates his thoughts a hell of alot better than most of the highstakes pros making videos imo. Whatever he wants to charge is up to him but the whole poker world is filled with jealous life cunts. Regardless of what you do someone always tries to bring you down even if your are extremely open about everything. To be honest if I was Myth I would not even really care to much about what people say in this thread. Seems like the main ones going after him are constantly emo and just sit and wait to attack people all day and try to throw their own life depression on other people, so fuck them imo. People like Ket and others similar I would actually respect but Baal and Loco hell fucking no. Maybe this is way off and I'm just a low limit nit/donk/grinder so this will probably get ignored but that is my 2cents.

lol? what's up with all the hate... i mean i can somewhat understand why baal would receive so much crap but really? let me try to drive a point to you... i have absolutely NOTHING personal against myth (have i ever said anything against myth in all the years i've been here?), and i'm not biased in any way, i just think that what he's doing is wrong/what he's done was wrong because of all the evidence that points towards it.

an image is worth a thousand words...



this is my 2009 and i was charging half what myth does, and apparently (still no evidence for this) the only time he's beat the games was somewhere in 2007 when online poker was ridiculously easy to beat. why can't i be genuinely upset about the situation? what's wrong with my position? what makes me a worse guy than ket for feeling the way i do? you just sound like a kid having a tantrum, you should keep your unorganized/pointless thoughts and obvious bias to yourself. . .

i'm glad he has decided to step up and shed some light on the situation + is now putting some efforts into his game and is going to keep us updated... but i just don't think beating 1/2 rush is any solid evidence to show for his skill, so i hope he's gonna play higher more consistently. and i don't think that twisting things in his favor to have some solid advertising on CR plus having people play on his account should be dismissed letting myth get away from it all unblemished, even if he does prove that he's able to beat the games now. he's done some pretty unethical things here i would say and he hasn't admitted fault once.

everyone is just like "oh he's doing the best he can now leave him alone, what more do you want from him" i guess the only thing i've wanted personally was some kind of clarification -- which we have gotten only now (finally) and it's all thanks to nazgul for stepping up otherwise we would still be clueless -- and perhaps an apology for misrepresenting himself as a winning player for the past 2-3 years but i guess i'm asking for too much.

Loco whipping out the brag graph with little to no provocation lol

calling me a jealous emo depressed hating something is not exactly little to no provocation... i guess it's just really hard for low stakes donks to understand my position and anybody not siding with myth on this has to just be a jealous person in their eyes

I think the hate you're getting is caused by the way you phrase your posts because you really do come across as a jealous emo depressed hating something.

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On July 21 2010 08:10 Loco wrote: calling me a jealous emo depressed hating something is not exactly little to no provocation... i guess it's just really hard for low stakes donks to understand my position and anybody not siding with myth on this has to just be a jealous person in their eyes

"Pit Bull is nominated for calling the cops on his drug-dealing neighbors, not because it was the right thing to do, but just 'cause he was jealous of all the money they was makin'. "

Why are people still fixated on the $350 per hour figure when it represents just a tiny portion of myth's overall coaching business? If people want to discuss the worth of myth's coaching, the discussion should be on his profit sharing arrangements since that represents the vast majority of his business.

I personally am of the opinion that myth's profit sharing business plan is not only fair but very smart. It is an arrangement that works for both parties, is 100% performance based and very transparent. If myth can take a break even player and turn him into a midstakes player that is able to book 40K+ in profit before rakeback within a year, then he is certainly doing his job and has earned every penny of the $10K in compensation. On the flip side, if myth fails at improving the player, he earns nothing despite investing quite a bit of time and effort.

If the student is putting in good volume, all myth needs to do to "do his job" is to bring the student's winrate up to around 1-2bb at 1/2. The task at hand is not having someone crush 3/6 like nolan or tom. If that were the case, then yes, myth's resume is short and I would not say he is qualified. However, to get someone to be a consistent, even marginal winner at 1/2+, I am of the opinion even a modest skill set should suffice if that person has skills in communication and articulating.

Myth found a niche that was underserved and he executed a well thought out business plan. Execution is everything in business and at the end of the day, coaching is still a business. Loco, just because you might have better skills as a poker player than myth does not mean that you should make the same amount of money. There are plenty of examples in the business world of a inferior product outperforming a superior product due to other business factors. When it comes to the profit sharing portion of myth's coaching business, I don't see anything unethical about it. In fact, I would commend myth on thinking outside the box and executing a well thought out strategy.

On July 21 2010 09:31 Oskar_123 wrote: I think the hate you're getting is caused by the way you phrase your posts because you really do come across as a jealous emo depressed hating something.

i'd like to think i'm a pretty lucid guy and i don't come off as such but please, instead of attacking my personality, make an effort to stay on topic and address the points being made. or at least try to be mindful about the whole thing if you completely disagree. almost all i see is biased here. all i've personally wished from this thread was a meaningful discussion, not a flamefest and i think my posts and the way i've engaged this corroborate that, correct me if i'm wrong. the hate i'm getting just seems to me like it's completely unjustified and coming from people who hold myth in high regard for whatever reason and fail to see that there was even an issue to begin with.

wow i just read through this whole thing.

i think some mod should just close this as the main issue at hand has been resolved:

the consensus is:

Myth hasn't beat the games in a long time.
Myth is probably overcharging for his coaching, but is mainly profiting through profit-sharing.
Myth is going to try to regrind and relearn some lessons about online poker.

On July 21 2010 10:06 Zalfor wrote: wow i just read through this whole thing. i think some mod should just close this as the main issue at hand has been resolved: the consensus is: Myth hasn't beat the games in a long time. Myth is probably overcharging for his coaching, but is mainly profiting through profit-sharing. Myth is going to try to regrind and relearn some lessons about online poker. Loco emorages a lot

FYP :D

On July 21 2010 08:10 Loco wrote: calling me a jealous emo depressed hating something is not exactly little to no provocation... i guess it's just really hard for low stakes donks to understand my position and anybody not siding with myth on this has to just be a jealous person in their eyes

I don't think posting your graph and randomly mentioning that you charge half of what Myth does is a very good counter argument to those accusations.

On July 21 2010 09:47 TenBagger wrote: Why are people still fixated on the $350 per hour figure when it represents just a tiny portion of myth's overall coaching business? If people want to discuss the worth of myth's coaching, the discussion should be on his profit sharing arrangements since that represents the vast majority of his business. I personally am of the opinion that myth's profit sharing business plan is not only fair but very smart. It is an arrangement that works for both parties, is 100% performance based and very transparent. If myth can take a break even player and turn him into a midstakes player that is able to book 40K+ in profit before rakeback within a year, then he is certainly doing his job and has earned every penny of the $10K in compensation. On the flip side, if myth fails at improving the player, he earns nothing despite investing quite a bit of time and effort. If the student is putting in good volume, all myth needs to do to "do his job" is to bring the student's winrate up to around 1-2bb at 1/2. The task at hand is not having someone crush 3/6 like nolan or tom. If that were the case, then yes, myth's resume is short and I would not say he is qualified. However, to get someone to be a consistent, even marginal winner at 1/2+, I am of the opinion even a modest skill set should suffice if that person has skills in communication and articulating. Myth found a niche that was underserved and he executed a well thought out business plan. Execution is everything in business and at the end of the day, coaching is still a business. Loco, just because you might have better skills as a poker player than myth does not mean that you should make the same amount of money. There are plenty of examples in the business world of a inferior product outperforming a superior product due to other business factors. When it comes to the profit sharing portion of myth's coaching business, I don't see anything unethical about it. In fact, I would commend myth on thinking outside the box and executing a well thought out strategy.

wow am i really this misunderstood by you or are you just trying to make me look bad on purpose? when i said that i thought what he did was unethical, i was pretty clear on the fact that it had nothing to do with his business plan, but rather the fact that he's advertised himself as being a player who beats stakes that he does not beat, and has never beat on a consistent basis. nobody cares how well he did in 2007, it has nothing to do with anything. he has never beat those stakes consistently from 2008 onward and advertised himself as such, and on top of that has other people playing on his account(s), which is illegal may i remind you. this is the unethical part, don't twist my words.

Ket mentioned that his profit sharing deal was a borderline scam when he came out with it. why isn't anybody giving him crap about it? it's interesting. i personally don't really think it's a scam but i do think it's a rather poor investment, but i see no reason to keep discussing that. i have no problems with that myself.

". Loco, just because you might have better skills as a poker player than myth does not mean that you should make the same amount of money." i don't care about making more money. i don't care about him making more money than i do, i care if he's abusing the naiveté of others in selling a product that is not worth that much, which i strongly believe it is not worth $350/h unless he can prove me otherwise. my post about my coaching rates had nothing to do about feeling like i deserve more, it was all about disclosing that i'm not the type of person to abuse others and i can't tolerate it if i perceive someone as doing so and that should come off as REASONABLE even if you don't agree and certainly nothing for anybody to be angry with me about

On July 21 2010 10:13 Maynard! wrote: Show nested quote + On July 21 2010 10:06 Zalfor wrote: wow i just read through this whole thing. i think some mod should just close this as the main issue at hand has been resolved: the consensus is: Myth hasn't beat the games in a long time. Myth is probably overcharging for his coaching, but is mainly profiting through profit-sharing. Myth is going to try to regrind and relearn some lessons about online poker. Loco emorages a lot FYP :D

i'll have more ulcers than body hair by the time i'm 50

On July 20 2010 21:47 Loco wrote: well, whatever you might've done in 2007 is completely irrelevant anyway... the games have changed so much since then, and you weren't coaching in 2007. i wouldn't of had a problem with you if you coached while having good results back then, seems fair that i do now, no? do you feel like ket has a personal vendetta against you, too? i don't get it at all. you act like i should know some things about you that i don't. it's only logical that i'm having this position right now and there's nothing personal about it.

one of the big reasons why at least i felt as tho there was a vendetta against us is that you keep openly saying, and u keep REPEATING that we are unable to beat internet poker anymore. You've modified your statements towards me to show that had to do with my disliking online cash and not wanting to play it which is appreciated.

both myth and i strayed away from cashgames online for different reasons... his rednines fuckover and my lack of enjoyment which leads to lack of motivation (huge problem for me) which leads to hating life while playing them. just because we opted to play live as our main game during the more recent years doesn't mean we can't beat online cash. AND on top of all of this myth has set out to prove that he can!



also the last part about "i should know some things about you that i don't". its funny u take this standpoint after knowing soooo much about us and saying it like its the word of god. kind of like how i "got a stake from peachy without having good results".. when my online results at the time were sooooo much better than they are now


im not trying to start the whole loco/frinkx thing again and if theres more stuff to be said between us we'll pm each other, but this had more to do with myth but tied into the whole thing.

loco, please reread my post. I start off by saying that the point of discussion for me isn't about the $350 an hour. I already said that I don't think he's worth that hourly rate, so why are you bringing that up again? My point is that I highly doubt anyone playing 3/6+ is gonna pay myth $350 an hour anywway. The vast majority of myth's students are NL100 or NL200 breakeven players that take a profit sharing agreement so if we are gonna judge myth's coaching as a whole, that should be the topic discussed.

My focus is on the profit sharing. I read ket's post about him thinking it's a borderline scam and while I value and respect ket's opinion my post was just to express a different opinion. I'll repeat myself again, I think the profit sharing arrangement is fair, transparent and fits a niche that is largely overlooked by the coaching community. I've been a marginal winner at NL100 for a long time and if I were to get coaching, that is the type of arrangement that I would prefer. Zero upfront layout and a variable compensation agreement that aligns the coach's interests with that of the student. Turning a NL100 grinder that has a 1BB winrate into an NL200 winner with a 2BB winrate does not require the coach to crush 3/6 or 5/10 online, but it does provide a tremendous amount of value to the student.

If myth is trying to charge $350 an hour to a midstakes player under the premise that he beats 5/10 online, I think the facts mentioned so far confirm that it is probably misleading and unethical. However, to group his entire business into that category is unfair when the majority of his business is completely different.

On July 21 2010 10:16 blackjacki2 wrote: Show nested quote + On July 21 2010 08:10 Loco wrote: calling me a jealous emo depressed hating something is not exactly little to no provocation... i guess it's just really hard for low stakes donks to understand my position and anybody not siding with myth on this has to just be a jealous person in their eyes I don't think posting your graph and randomly mentioning that you charge half of what Myth does is a very good counter argument to those accusations.

it isn't the point and it's not random at all. it's meant to show that i didn't take advantage of my good results to overcharge or try to get a business going, so it's reasonable for me to be upset with someone who did when he couldn't even dream of having had those results. i wouldn't feel it's fair to do so when those results were just for a year and they are by no means a strong enough indication of my skill level as both a coach and a player for me to charge more than i did. this is where myth and i differ. he thought it was fair for him to do so and i don't think so.

and LOL @ baal trying to discredit us because we go to a strip club and make jokes about it

you're unbelievably pathetic and i don't think his comments should have been edited out, everyone should know what an absolute piece of shit he is.

On July 21 2010 10:32 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On July 21 2010 10:16 blackjacki2 wrote:   On July 21 2010 08:10 Loco wrote: calling me a jealous emo depressed hating something is not exactly little to no provocation... i guess it's just really hard for low stakes donks to understand my position and anybody not siding with myth on this has to just be a jealous person in their eyes I don't think posting your graph and randomly mentioning that you charge half of what Myth does is a very good counter argument to those accusations. it isn't the point and it's not random at all. it's meant to show that i didn't take advantage of my good results to overcharge or try to get a business going, so it's reasonable for me to be upset with someone who did when he couldn't even dream of having had those results. i wouldn't feel it's fair to do so when those results were just for a year and they are by no means an indication of my skill level as both a coach and a player. this is where myth and i differ. he thought it was fair for him to do so and i don't think so.

again, you are comparing yourself with myth on the hourly rate. how about comparing yourself with myth's profit sharing program. wait, there is no comparision because you were not offering a profit sharing program for break even NL100/NL200 players. in fact, there are few coaches out there that can make a comparision because no one is offering it. Myth saw an underserved market and met the need. Since his profit sharing is completely performace based, he would only make money if his students succeed, so for him to have made a profit on it, it had to be mutually beneficial to his students.