The Rake :( - Page 10

On October 19 2010 16:59 TenBagger wrote: Show nested quote + On October 19 2010 14:33 Bejamin1 wrote: Don't exactly need them to participate in a boycott for this to be successful. Herein lies our difference of opinion. Ok, let's say you are able or organize a hugely successful boycott. Not only are you able to organize every single reg, but you are also able to organize every single random fish so that for an entire 24 hour period, there is no activity whatsoever on pokerstars and they rake 0 hands. If you are able to do that 1 day per month, that amounts to roughly 3% of their revenue. Even if somehow you were able to guarantee this were to happen once a month for eternity, it is still FAR FAR more profitable for pokerstars to maintain their current rake structure and deal with this annoyance.

Ok but you are absolutely not taking into account the psychological impact it will have on all users of so many people boycotting and saying loudly "this is wrong". It will have a direct negative effect on how the company is viewed by the public and that will change their bottom line.

how can you avoid Bots on Gengix simple poker tables?

On October 20 2010 15:22 Bejamin1 wrote: Show nested quote + On October 20 2010 13:43 curtinsea wrote:   On October 14 2010 08:53 Bejamin1 wrote: That's why you need the players to organize and take meaningful action. You need petitions signed by 10,000+ Regs. You need legitimate threats to short tournaments like The Sunday Million by boycotting them so that they miss their guarantee by hundreds of thousands of dollars, You need people mass sitting out on 24+ tables simultaneously for as often as they have a computer within reach to block tables and disrupt play for everyone including fish. Spread the word publicly by blog and in the chat on Pokerstars. Pokerstars, FTP, and the other big sites are raking the games dry. This is especially true at the microstakes which are disproportionately effected. It has a trickle up effect at higher stakes because less players advance to donate money higher up. It is in everyone's best interest to fight for lower rake. I want people to start fighting for this issue. Damn Communist How about encouraging new sites to appear with lower rakes and just steal the players away from pokerstars. This has a much better chance of success. (slim instead of none) Incorrect. You must realize that if any new poker site was launched that had a different rake structure than Pokerstars and had any success whatsoever FTP & Pokerstars would instantly match the rake scheme and steal all the customers right back. The best chance is continued protest in a meaningful way + an open source project like what Gen is working on. Security will be the primary concern with such a project though.

how is this not exactly what you've been asking for?

On October 21 2010 10:56 Bigbobm wrote: Show nested quote + On October 20 2010 15:22 Bejamin1 wrote:   On October 20 2010 13:43 curtinsea wrote:   On October 14 2010 08:53 Bejamin1 wrote: That's why you need the players to organize and take meaningful action. You need petitions signed by 10,000+ Regs. You need legitimate threats to short tournaments like The Sunday Million by boycotting them so that they miss their guarantee by hundreds of thousands of dollars, You need people mass sitting out on 24+ tables simultaneously for as often as they have a computer within reach to block tables and disrupt play for everyone including fish. Spread the word publicly by blog and in the chat on Pokerstars. Pokerstars, FTP, and the other big sites are raking the games dry. This is especially true at the microstakes which are disproportionately effected. It has a trickle up effect at higher stakes because less players advance to donate money higher up. It is in everyone's best interest to fight for lower rake. I want people to start fighting for this issue. Damn Communist How about encouraging new sites to appear with lower rakes and just steal the players away from pokerstars. This has a much better chance of success. (slim instead of none) Incorrect. You must realize that if any new poker site was launched that had a different rake structure than Pokerstars and had any success whatsoever FTP & Pokerstars would instantly match the rake scheme and steal all the customers right back. The best chance is continued protest in a meaningful way + an open source project like what Gen is working on. Security will be the primary concern with such a project though. how is this not exactly what you've been asking for?

I'd be very happy to see a rake free site start. Run by advertising and donations. I think it can be made to work.

What I'm suggesting there is if the new site was still rake based and became successful the major sites would just match their rake and the new site would be screwed over. I suppose it wouldn't be a big deal if it was created relatively inexpensively but if someone invested 20 grand+ into a site that raked say 10 cents per pot cap and then was bullied out of business before making their money back yeah I could see that being a problem.

Either way I think pursuing both options is important. Organizing around his effort to build a rake free alternative and protesting the major sites are both important things to do.

wat? if the major sites just matched the lower rake of the smaller sites we'd get exactly what we wanted, lower rake.

i was with you earlier but youve gotta be dreaming if youre talking about having a rake free site. theres a ton of people involved with and working towards keeping the sites running, secure, etc. while i do think we're currently being way overcharged, the people working at the sites do deserve for us to pay them for their work.

On October 22 2010 05:31 joLin wrote: wat? if the major sites just matched the lower rake of the smaller sites we'd get exactly what we wanted, lower rake. i was with you earlier but youve gotta be dreaming if youre talking about having a rake free site. theres a ton of people involved with and working towards keeping the sites running, secure, etc. while i do think we're currently being way overcharged, the people working at the sites do deserve for us to pay them for their work.

Look I'd be happy to simply see the prices come down a little. The rake free site isn't my design. It's what Gen posted a page or two back in this thread. He's been working on his own open source project to provide free poker for everyone. I wish people would actually read the thread before just throwing out random comments that don't connect to the conversations going on.

On October 22 2010 05:31 joLin wrote:theres a ton of people involved with and working towards keeping the sites running, secure, etc. while i do think we're currently being way overcharged, the people working at the sites do deserve for us to pay them for their work.

This is a lie.

A Poker server can be run through IRC using a dedicated server side bot.
http://www.ukshells.co.uk/ircdhosting/ £110/year
http://www.sh3lls.net/ircd_plan.htm < 500 users = $135, 2000 = $400
You pick any decent host which caters to large corporations and their security will be 100x better than PokerStar's security.
You can google "ircd hosting" to see for yourself.

PokerStars are not programming Operating Systems and doing complex security research. They are just taking free tools and using them. Installing Linux and applying bolted down security settings is not a fucking science!


I made this in last few days
People need to stop reverse rationalising that the money PokerStars has taken from them at least does something tangible. It's a form of self comfort. People code more complex apps in their spare time on their own for fun.

the video is in HD so make sure to change it to 1080p when watching it on youtube to see it in full glory

also the recording app fucks up at the end part and shows a window still there so just ignore that.

all of these shit things like adding a real time odds calculator is terrible dude

you realize poker only exists because of the fish? fish don't need to know or want to see all of this bullshit they want to enjoy some poker

I think your app may, or probably will work and be a neat thing to toy with for a minute but you are NOT designing with the poker community in mind or any kind of realistic thought as for what it takes for an online card room to be popular

I'm not sure what your goal is though.

yea i think a built in range calculator is a bit much but w/e

btw, they already tried this years ago and it didnt work, full of regs and barely any fish.

i think it was wsex.com

Do you guys realize how much it costs to run Pokerstars?

Are they making a large profit? Probably.

But here are things that hits Pokerstars's profits.

Every time there is a deposit, there is a fee assessed.

Every time there is a cashout, there is a fee assessed.

They cover all those fees for everyone.

Do you know how quickly Pokerstars responds to your emails? Sometimes minutes, usually within an hour. That's because they have a HUGE support system running 24/7.
Do you feel safe Pokerstars handling your money? Most people answer yes, because your balance is an actual balance in a European bank.
Do you know how big Pokerstars's security team is? Personally I don't, neither do most people, but they do large investigations, eg. Chinese DoN players, The Void in the WCOOP last year, etc.
Do you know how much bandwidth/hosting is required to run PS? Yes sometimes it's slow as hell, but most of the time it runs with no issues, even then if you lost money, you can request a refund for losses, and usually they do give it to you.

There are so many things in the background that we don't see.

You can make a website, with little to no rake. But you won't be able to provide the security, support, volume, etc.. to Pokerstars unless you start increasing rake.
As stated before, those who played on Prima websites like RedNines, much less rake. But have you tried cashing out/contact support on those places? Took days.



Also, there's no way people could orchestrate the strike by no one playing. The reason FR got it because they have a small community.

People who won't care about it, fish, they don't go to any poker forums like we do, they won't know whats going on.
Regs who don't care as much about the rake, since it will be the regs orchestrating it, would be more profitable to play during those times.

Yes rake sucks, but I don't think anytime will come remotely close to competing with Pokerstars rake wise(Other than the current sites out now like FTP.)

we need pokerstars! <3

On October 25 2010 00:34 Jubert69 wrote: Do you feel safe Pokerstars handling your money? Most people answer yes, because your balance is an actual balance in a European bank.

hmm..this cant be true, is it really?

On October 25 2010 02:35 joLin wrote: Show nested quote + On October 25 2010 00:34 Jubert69 wrote: Do you feel safe Pokerstars handling your money? Most people answer yes, because your balance is an actual balance in a European bank. hmm..this cant be true, is it really?

Can't be an account for every user. Impossible.

i think its just one big account earning interest for them. party poker actually used to pay people the interest they earned from the bank account.

ps has a sick deal

--- Nuked ---

I haven't read through all the pages, but could charge something like 50/month per table you have open. That would be more realistic.

and maybe have it stake dependant. Like 25nl would be 50/month per table, 50nl $100/month per table, etc. So SN/SNE grinders would be paying more per table per stake but would get their monies worth it if they grinded every day.

On October 25 2010 02:35 joLin wrote: Show nested quote + On October 25 2010 00:34 Jubert69 wrote: Do you feel safe Pokerstars handling your money? Most people answer yes, because your balance is an actual balance in a European bank. hmm..this cant be true, is it really?

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/real-money/usplayerfaq/#n19