Damn it live players.... - Page 2

The reason why you want to do that is mainly because they are calling too much, this is the first big hand you are potentially showing and you want to lay down the foundation for an image that is most productive for getting max value and future fold equity. If you go potsize or bigger, 3 streets, and they call. Entire table see your 2 pair and bet sizing, now in future if you want to bluff and use a big bet, they will have even more reason to fold that 4th pair

well, at least you know what his limping, floating, turn calling range is.

On January 16 2011 22:56 Highcard wrote: The reason why you want to do that is mainly because they are calling too much, this is the first big hand you are potentially showing and you want to lay down the foundation for an image that is most productive for getting max value and future fold equity. If you go potsize or bigger, 3 streets, and they call. Entire table see your 2 pair and bet sizing, now in future if you want to bluff and use a big bet, they will have even more reason to fold that 4th pair

Isn't that counter productive against opponents with such bizarre ranges that are very call happy? If my pot bets are bluffs, they have to work extremely often for it to be profitable.

I don't expect fish to value bet river with a queen there, or really anything that is weakmade. So he will either make some gay bluff like that, or just a value bet. So i guess it just depends on if you have ever seen what his betting sizes are for value and for bluffs.

ok I will try to think about how i think about bluff sizes vs fish that is

There are a few types of fish, some people who call down super lite with any pair to river and end of folding if it gets super scary, or call when it isn't that scary. Say they have A6 on a 6J4r, 8r,2r. Some fish will call 3 barrels even very large bets. But say it runs off and there is now a flush. Betting river smallish to make it look like a flush that wants to get called is not going to work against a fish. They will just call because they are curious and/or already like calling. You will want to make a big strong bet. If you have already shown a river where you bet huge with a big hand than this looks even more credible. But anyways, you want to maximise fold equity against calling stations if there is a big hand that can be represented.

So instead the board is slightly drawy, and you know he likes to chase overs/flush/gutshot/straights. If the board runs out in bricks, then this is a spot where you'd rather bet smaller if you know he does draw lite but obviously cant call river when he bricks too.

Do not try to get him off of made 'strong' hands, like if you suspect he has an Ace Top pair, going 3 streets with bombs probably is suicide as he will still just call with his A4o

Say you are against a calling station and the river is like $100potsize you both have $150behind, there was a scary draw on flop and river it hits. You know he probably just has his callingstation pair. This is a good spot to overbet shove. Just because it has to work idk, 60%-70% of the time, it probably will work that much. Will give you a great image of strong player and lots of action in future if you do get called.

On January 16 2011 23:12 Highcard wrote: There are a few types of fish, some people who call down super lite with any pair to river and end of folding if it gets super scary, or call when it isn't that scary. Say they have A6 on a 6J4r, 8r,2r. Some fish will call 3 barrels even very large bets. But say it runs off and there is now a flush. Betting river smallish to make it look like a flush that wants to get called is not going to work against a fish. They will just call because they are curious and/or already like calling. You will want to make a big strong bet. If you have already shown a river where you bet huge with a big hand than this looks even more credible. But anyways, you want to maximise fold equity against calling stations if there is a big hand that can be represented. So instead the board is slightly drawy, and you know he likes to chase overs/flush/gutshot/straights. If the board runs out in bricks, then this is a spot where you'd rather bet smaller if you know he does draw lite but obviously cant call river when he bricks too.

Ah okay, so you mean betting big with made hands. You mean when you have a good hand, and there are any draws on the board, bet big as they are going to pay anything to see if their draws hit.

My dilemma was in my common practice of semibluffing with bigger hands such as overs with an open ender. Your goal is for them to fold, yet you still have outs if they call. When you are facing stations that call down huge bets very light, I am unsure of how to deal with this as I am not sure if the math works out for me to keep betting when I have very little fold equity on the flop and turn bets

Otherwise, if you are not willing to make big bets on rivers when you can represent big hands, than you should stop cbetting every time you miss. There is really nothing wrong with never betting when all you have is some weak overs and no backdoors vs calling stations/multiway pots. They aren't going to adjust and say, "He never bets when he misses and always bets when he hits. So I will bet everytime he checks and fold when he bets"

Also, stop worry about sizing your bets like 2/3 or 3/4. If you have a big hand you must get max value from it by betting as large as you can each street. If, over time, they realize you are betting huge and actually start folding than you can start to open your range and cbetting again with weaker missed flops.

Ok, when you have semibluffing hands. If you know they are always calling, even calling brick rivers and some scare card rivers. They you should stop barreling your semibluff air. If you know they are going to check weak hands down when you nocontinuationbet or bet small. Than you can start to check and try to see free turns/rivers. If you do hit, then throw in a pot bet or larger. Do that until they start folding. If they never fold, than you are obviously seeing free cards and making huge profit from it, if they do start folding, than you now gained respect to start bluffing.

The only reason why you cbet or semi bluff is if you have fold equity and add some balance for your bigger hands. If they are just calling down all the time anyways, than you will have more variance constantly barreling weak semi bluffs without river fold equity.

TY for all the help Highcard

np