Making Changes to the Business: 300 VIP System

Hey, how can I check if I have this 35% rakeback? I'm pretty sure I've clicked your banner on the top of LP's site yesterday and downloaded the software from there. My username: TheBizarre.

On March 28 2011 13:26 Kapol wrote: Hey, how can I check if I have this 35% rakeback? I'm pretty sure I've clicked your banner on the top of LP's site yesterday and downloaded the software from there. My username: TheBizarre.

You're on rakeback now (I just put you on it), but you wont' be generating the VIP points as fast, but at the rate you are going, the rakeback is better for you, it's paid out daily;
and I think the link above is just for the standard VIP (which again is good for new players),
but if anyone wants to get on the rackback from LP,
just let me know.

Cheers and thanks very much for signing up,
very much appreciate it.

David

Sorry for being an asshole, but
+ Show Spoiler +

Loving the blog, keep it up

On March 28 2011 14:11 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Sorry for being an asshole, but + Show Spoiler + Hi CEO, 35% is the amount every Merge site has, and majority of deals are at 45% at a plethora of skins through rakeback sites (They do 10% extra monthly, or when you rake X amount they give you X amount of money extra, but it always comes to around 43-49% right from the start no matter if you have $50 or $50k at the site). Plus you have VIP points to buy in to tournaments with automatically on top of that and you need no levels, a skin I play on even doesn't take out RB and allows gaining VIP points at a normal rate AND you get rakeraces for high volume people on top of that. They don't have any pros signed but they are established and have fast customer support, what would be the reason for switching from one of these skins that just gives all to players instead of funding pros and marketing? Or am I understanding it wrong and when you reach level 300 your Rakeback increases as well, as it happens on Pokerstars? That would kickass if you can reach 300 and have 80% rakeback -.-

No worries and I'm happy to address this and thanks for bringing it up because someone would have anyway.

I'm just going to pull out the spoiler, and just put an * by my response

"Hi CEO, 35% is the amount every Merge site has, and majority of deals are at 45% at a plethora of skins through rakeback sites (They do 10% extra monthly, or when you rake X amount they give you X amount of money extra, but it always comes to around 43-49% right from the start no matter if you have $50 or $50k at the site). "

***35% is the standard across Merge, and I'm not sure about the deals, but in any case, with Hero Poker, you'll only earn the VIP points at 20% the normal rate with rakeback. But our deposit bonus is set at 75 VIP points for $5 rather than 375 VIP points for $5 which is the standard play through for other merge sites. We're at about 43% including the 10% VIP point exchange with the 35% rakeback and 20% VIP point generation, BUT, 100% you can find better absolute deals on merge network***


"Plus you have VIP points to buy in to tournaments with automatically on top of that and you need no levels, a skin I play on even doesn't take out RB and allows gaining VIP points at a normal rate AND you get rakeraces for high volume people on top of that. "

***Those VIP points from other sites without any rewards is just earned at an equivalent of 10%, in our 300 system, you're getting about 30% back normally (tournament tickets plus the VIP point exchange), so you can still play those VIP tournaments, but recognize that the levels aren't preventing you from joining those tournaments either, its just giving you free tickets based on your level. That being said, a skin that gives you RB and VIP at normal rates and rakeraces for high volume players, Hero Poker can't and wouldn't compete with there margin would be razor thin and they couldn't engage in any marketing and if they took a hit on the rakerace for that month (meaning they didn't' make the minimum to break even they'd be screwed on their cash flow and erase all their gains for the month). Now keep in mind, you're getting the industry view point, but from the player stand point, I can't argue with the above you've written because for the player, that is absolutely the better deal.***

"They don't have any pros signed but they are established and have fast customer support, what would be the reason for switching from one of these skins that just gives all to players instead of funding pros and marketing? "

***For a player like yourself, Hero Poker is probably not the best choice for you. And it's not my intention to fight or take players away from other Merge network sites, in fact, one reason why I was brought into Merge and given favourable treatment is my ability or potential to add to the overall health of the network' But you've touched on the two polar sides of poker marketing. One side is massive rakeback and rakeraces and the other side is marketing, pro players and VIP rewards systems.

For the short term, a player on rakeback and rakeraces, will find the value there, but that same site is completely dependent on the network for its liquidity, if it should get cut off one day or have a couple bad months where another site on the network undercuts them, they won't have much money to fall back on. So as stable as you think they are, they aren't because they invest a lot of their working capital in these rack races to maximize the gains from their current player base.

Now, #1 I'm not saying that these sites aren't financial stable, but their business models aren't,
#2, it won't affect you anyway as a player because you can always just transfer to the next site that has the same or similar offer. But on a business side, which is totally irrelevant to you as a player, it's a dead end as far as getting new players to grow and develop your site, and if you don't eventually there won't be sites such as these because the market leaders will provide such great value that these sites will be dead. Even if you don't get rake back on PS or less RB on FT you play there because it has huge tournament guarantees and you can maximize the use of your bankroll and it has games 24/7. And that includes giving out a random 2k cause it was the millionth hand, no rakeback skin could ever do that. But Hero Poker ain't PS or FT that's for sure.

Say that Hero Poker does break into the top ten, and that will only occur through marketing, then the absolute value I could provide, not in rakeback or VIP returns alone, would be comparable. But actually, that really is my challenge and my task and right, perhaps I do not have enough of a value proposition for a player like you to switch over, but for a new player, there might be when their rakeback is really meaningless when they only deposit $10, but they get a boost when I run a 1k freeroll for LP.net and they get a steady stream of tournament tickets. For a new player with low volume, the value Hero Poker provides is more articulated, and compared to the PS/FT the rakeback is still great, but again, I can't argue if we are talking about other Merge skins. That being said, I know that Hero Poker will always be part of Merge, even if Merge suddenly gets some sick traffic, because we are actively trying to contribute to that traffic, than other skins who aren't. Not say that other skins won't stay part of the network if they don't contribute new players, but I'm sure you get my point. ***


"Or am I understanding it wrong and when you reach level 300 your Rakeback increases as well, as it happens on Pokerstars? That would kickass if you can reach 300 and have 80% rakeback -.-"

***I would love to do that, and I've put in a system that actually does something similar to that (through the cash rebate at that level), but would you ever play at Hero Poker if it had the exact same system of PS's supernova system? No, you'd never get started because the rewards at the lower level suck and anyway you'd get a better deal at another Merge skin. PS can offer 80% because of the volume on the site and how much a player rakes to get there in the first place, but no other site can give that proposition without going broke.

Ultimately, my purpose is to target new players and get them to grow with the site, so if things go well, I have no problem giving our 300 level players 80% as PS does, but it's a process to get there and actually the crux of the issue for me at Hero Poker. Is it really possible for a rakeback skin to make it as a top 10 site and if I did just set up as a rakeback racerace skin, the answer would be a no. And so if I can figure this out, then I'll probably have a Harvard case study written about it.

When I was at PS as a regional director, I never had to contend with the entire RB issue cause I was too busy getting new players and it was a model that worked. Right now, for a player like yourself, the value is negligible, but if I can bring Hero Poker and Merge up to that of the cereus network, then at that point, you might find additional value. But I know I can't do anything for a player like yourself now, but I'm not in this for the short term. And I really think I can work it, so I hope I can still get you on our site, maybe not now, but maybe in a year or so ^^ ***

Cheers,
David

On March 28 2011 14:11 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Sorry for being an asshole, but + Show Spoiler + Hi CEO, 35% is the amount every Merge site has, and majority of deals are at 45% at a plethora of skins through rakeback sites (They do 10% extra monthly, or when you rake X amount they give you X amount of money extra, but it always comes to around 43-49% right from the start no matter if you have $50 or $50k at the site). Plus you have VIP points to buy in to tournaments with automatically on top of that and you need no levels, a skin I play on even doesn't take out RB and allows gaining VIP points at a normal rate AND you get rakeraces for high volume people on top of that. They don't have any pros signed but they are established and have fast customer support, what would be the reason for switching from one of these skins that just gives all to players instead of funding pros and marketing? Or am I understanding it wrong and when you reach level 300 your Rakeback increases as well, as it happens on Pokerstars? That would kickass if you can reach 300 and have 80% rakeback -.-

No worries and I'm happy to address this and thanks for bringing it up because someone would have anyway.

I'm just going to pull out the spoiler, and just put an * by my response

"Hi CEO, 35% is the amount every Merge site has, and majority of deals are at 45% at a plethora of skins through rakeback sites (They do 10% extra monthly, or when you rake X amount they give you X amount of money extra, but it always comes to around 43-49% right from the start no matter if you have $50 or $50k at the site). "

***35% is the standard across Merge, and I'm not sure about the deals, but in any case, with Hero Poker, you'll only earn the VIP points at 20% the normal rate with rakeback. But our deposit bonus is set at 75 VIP points for $5 rather than 375 VIP points for $5 which is the standard play through for other merge sites. We're at about 43% including the 10% VIP point exchange with the 35% rakeback and 20% VIP point generation, BUT, 100% you can find better absolute deals on merge network***


"Plus you have VIP points to buy in to tournaments with automatically on top of that and you need no levels, a skin I play on even doesn't take out RB and allows gaining VIP points at a normal rate AND you get rakeraces for high volume people on top of that. "

***Those VIP points from other sites without any rewards is just earned at an equivalent of 10%, in our 300 system, you're getting about 30% back normally (tournament tickets plus the VIP point exchange), so you can still play those VIP tournaments, but recognize that the levels aren't preventing you from joining those tournaments either, its just giving you free tickets based on your level. That being said, a skin that gives you RB and VIP at normal rates and rakeraces for high volume players, Hero Poker can't and wouldn't compete with there margin would be razor thin and they couldn't engage in any marketing and if they took a hit on the rakerace for that month (meaning they didn't' make the minimum to break even) they'd be screwed on their cash flow and erase all their gains for the month). Now keep in mind, you're getting the industry view point, but from the player stand point, I can't argue with the above you've written because for the player, that is absolutely the better deal.***

"They don't have any pros signed but they are established and have fast customer support, what would be the reason for switching from one of these skins that just gives all to players instead of funding pros and marketing? "

***For a player like yourself, Hero Poker is probably not the best choice for you. And it's not my intention to fight or take players away from other Merge network sites, in fact, one reason why I was brought into Merge and given favourable treatment is my ability or potential to add to the overall health of the network' But you've touched on the two polar sides of poker marketing. One side is massive rakeback and rakeraces and the other side is marketing, pro players and VIP rewards systems. For the short term, a player on rakeback and rakeraces, will find the value there, but that same site is completely dependent on the network for its liquidity, if it should get cut off one day or have a couple bad months where another site on the network undercuts them, they won't have much money to fall back on. So as stable as you think they are, they aren't because they invest a lot of their working capital in these rack races to maximize the gains from their current player base.

Now, #1 I'm not saying that these sites aren't financial stable, but their business models aren't, #2, it won't affect you anyway as a player because you can always just transfer to the next site that has the same or similar offer. But on a business side, which is totally irrelevant to you as a player, it's a dead end as far as getting new players to grow and develop your site, and if you don't eventually there won't be sites such as these because the market leaders will provide such great value that these sites will be dead. Even if you don't get rake back on PS or less RB on FT you play there because it has huge tournament guarantees and you can maximize the use of your bankroll and it has games 24/7. And that includes giving out a random 2k cause it was the millionth hand, no rakeback skin could ever do that. But Hero Poker ain't PS or FT that's for sure.

Say that Hero Poker does break into the top ten, and that will only occur through marketing, then the absolute value I could provide, not in rakeback or VIP returns alone, would be comparable. But actually, that really is my challenge and my task and right, perhaps I do not have enough of a value proposition for a player like you to switch over, but for a new player, there might be when their rakeback is really meaningless when they only deposit $10, but they get a boost when I run a 1k freeroll for LP.net and they get a steady stream of tournament tickets. For a new player with low volume, the value Hero Poker provides is more articulated, and compared to the PS/FT the rakeback is still great, but again, I can't argue if we are talking about other Merge skins. That being said, I know that Hero Poker will always be part of Merge, even if Merge suddenly gets some sick traffic, because we are actively trying to contribute to that traffic, than other skins who aren't. Not say that other skins won't stay part of the network if they don't contribute new players, but I'm sure you get my point. ***


"Or am I understanding it wrong and when you reach level 300 your Rakeback increases as well, as it happens on Pokerstars? That would kickass if you can reach 300 and have 80% rakeback -.-"

***I would love to do that, and I've put in a system that actually does something similar to that (through the cash rebate at that level), but would you ever play at Hero Poker if it had the exact same system of PS's supernova system? No, you'd never get started because the rewards at the lower level suck and anyway you'd get a better deal at another Merge skin. PS can offer 80% because of the volume on the site and how much a player rakes to get there in the first place, but no other site can give that proposition without going broke.

Ultimately, my purpose is to target new players and get them to grow with the site, so if things go well, I have no problem giving our 300 level players 80% as PS does, but it's a process to get there and actually the crux of the issue for me at Hero Poker. Is it really possible for a rakeback skin to make it as a top 10 site and if I did just set up as a rakeback rakerace skin, the answer would be a no. And so if I can figure this out, then I'll probably have a Harvard case study written about it.

When I was at PS as a regional director, I never had to contend with the entire RB issue cause I was too busy getting new players and it was a model that worked. Right now, for a player like yourself, the value is negligible, but if I can bring Hero Poker and Merge up to that of the cereus network, then at that point, you might find additional value. But I know I can't do anything for a player like yourself now, but I'm not in this for the short term. And I really think I can work it, so I hope I can still get you on our site, maybe not now, but maybe in a year or so ^^ ***

Cheers,
David

On March 28 2011 15:53 edzwoo wrote: Loving the blog, keep it up

Thx Cheers ^^

Thank you for your thorough answer David,

I see that I did misunderstand and you get tickets on top of the vip points that...buy tickets/entries That's going to be a bucket load of tickets, but whatever EV is what counts, if the tickets amount to +15-20% from rake in tickets back you pretty much match other offers, just through a different channel.

The sites do get marketing but through word of mouth and through the rake back sites and personal people that get a small cut from a rake back, the undercut problem is possible but not within Merge in the short term, I believe you cannot switch between skins for several months (if you want rakeback deals), and the extra % seem to be very similar between skins other just the delivery of the 10-15% extra differs.

But you are absolutely right that we need skins that will bring more recreational players in, cheap word of mouth marketing induced by large rake back is cool but it brings in rb grinding nits and shortstackers, I 100% support your cause and approach that will make you rich and Merge more profitable for the common grinder!

Bets of luck, and thanks again for spending your time with the answer. I think I like you more than Melanie

Thanks for the reply,
well I hope if I can do it I can use the profits to support e-sports and the common grinder and get you to come and play on Hero at that time and lavish you with lots of bonuses from the mass market volume of players ^^.

Cheers.

Just to give you guys a heads-up. Played 1400 hands at NL50 6-max and cleared $35 of the deposit bonus, so I encourage you to give it a try.

Please understand that despite my critical views, I am very much in support of your venture, and am planning to deposit and become part of a community that may grow with your site.

That being said, let me begin by saying that this is a too big of a read. An introduction should not be this long. I am a believer in that you can deliver what you wish to say in shorter words if you are good at expressing yourself well enough. So if you could please, provide cliff notes or just.. write shorter, that would be fantastic. I didn't read this in great detail because I got lost in some gibberish about finding some random wealthy fish who likely one tables (good luck~!!). No offense, but this is not only disrespectful to the player himself, but also somewhat inconsistent with your message; "to grow with new (micro/small stakes) players". Since this fish likely only really plays highstakes, which we, the micro/small stakes players will only drool and look at him in envy while others reap the benefits. All in all, it's just piece of information that's like..really whatever. And there's a wall of text there about this player which is like..why...? I mean, I guess it doesn't hurt... but that's kind of random.


I do like the level of interaction you are having with the community, it's truly fantastic. In a world where we believe big money corporates are ran by bald headed white assholes with too expensive of a tongue to speak to a commoner, this is indeed a refreshing sight to see. By all means, you guys aren't huge (just yet), still, I don't expect running an international poker site to be a local store-size of a venture, but much bigger.

If there is one thing that I don't like is the whole tournament ticket thing. I am exclusively a cash game player. I do not enjoy tournaments, nor do I ever wish to partake in one. And I believe that through your VIP program, I'm expected to receive several of these tickets as part of my reward for paying fat rake. Is there any alternatives to these tickets? In FTP, their Iron Man program provides a similar thing where they give you tournament tickets, which you can convert into medals instead. Because if I can't, I'm just losing value and that's not very cool

i am so moving to this site . downloaded it through the lp banner but havent made an account yet, does the lp link give me rakeback or if i run into problems can you give me rakeback manually?

you seem to have a good idea. it is a solid business plan and I hope you well.

Is that 600$ bonus like pokerstars where you get like 3 deposits within 90 days to reach 600 or is it just a one time thing?

On March 28 2011 19:55 Arirang wrote: Please understand that despite my critical views, I am very much in support of your venture, and am planning to deposit and become part of a community that may grow with your site. That being said, let me begin by saying that this is a too big of a read. An introduction should not be this long. I am a believer in that you can deliver what you wish to say in shorter words if you are good at expressing yourself well enough. So if you could please, provide cliff notes or just.. write shorter, that would be fantastic. I didn't read this in great detail because I got lost in some gibberish about finding some random wealthy fish who likely one tables (good luck~!!). No offense, but this is not only disrespectful to the player himself, but also somewhat inconsistent with your message; "to grow with new (micro/small stakes) players". Since this fish likely only really plays highstakes, which we, the micro/small stakes players will only drool and look at him in envy while others reap the benefits. All in all, it's just piece of information that's like..really whatever. And there's a wall of text there about this player which is like..why...? I mean, I guess it doesn't hurt... but that's kind of random. I do like the level of interaction you are having with the community, it's truly fantastic. In a world where we believe big money corporates are ran by bald headed white assholes with too expensive of a tongue to speak to a commoner, this is indeed a refreshing sight to see. By all means, you guys aren't huge (just yet), still, I don't expect running an international poker site to be a local store-size of a venture, but much bigger. If there is one thing that I don't like is the whole tournament ticket thing. I am exclusively a cash game player. I do not enjoy tournaments, nor do I ever wish to partake in one. And I believe that through your VIP program, I'm expected to receive several of these tickets as part of my reward for paying fat rake. Is there any alternatives to these tickets? In FTP, their Iron Man program provides a similar thing where they give you tournament tickets, which you can convert into medals instead. Because if I can't, I'm just losing value and that's not very cool

Thanks for the detailed review,
actually your comment about my blogging style has been told to me before as I had this other business blog and the format wasn't for everyone:
in the past I think I used the act of writing the blog also a way to understand the issue that was grappling with as I've never been one to simple post for the sake of posting;
that being said, I could use to be more visually friendly and I think because of the wall of text you may have missed my point about the use of the VIP for retention even for such a wealthy fish. But that is entirely my fault, so moving forward, I'll provide some cliff notes at the beginning or end so you and others can scroll down to it.

To be perfectly honest, I'd be happy with 200 regular players for the first year and get to know all of them and serve them hand and foot because ultimately that is what a poker room should do at the primary level and when you get larger of course you try to automate that via the VIP system or whatever, but it doesn't change the goal. When I first set-up the PS Macau card room, didn't matter if a customer was a live freeroll player, if they took the time to come to the room and play, I really respected that. So there are many things I can't compete with, but my time and the quality of the interaction is one thing I can.

I can convert the value of the tournament tickets into a cash rebate with a minor play through, so when you amass as many as you'd like, let me know and I'll sort it out, you can PM here, or email at rewards@heropoker.com

*Will make summary of post
*Happy to focus on players with one-on-one interaction as a 'boutique site'
*Will convert tournament tickets to cash rebate so not to screw cash game players out of value

And again, thanks for the comment, it is much appreciated.
^^ Cheers.

On March 28 2011 20:01 whamm! wrote: i am so moving to this site . downloaded it through the lp banner but havent made an account yet, does the lp link give me rakeback or if i run into problems can you give me rakeback manually?

Yes no worries, just PM your user name I'll make sure everything is sorted.
Cheers.
David

On March 28 2011 22:07 aCa_ wrote: Is that 600$ bonus like pokerstars where you get like 3 deposits within 90 days to reach 600 or is it just a one time thing?

@Zalfor Thanks for the reply.

@aCa, it is set up as a one time thing, but you can just PM directly and I sort you out to 600 over a period of few deposits and that is fine for anyone (and you'll have 3 months to clear each one), but please be reasonable about it as I have to set it up manually each time before I issue the bonus (as its automatic at the moment for the first deposit) and you'll have to let me know when you've done it. That being said, if you're a lower stakes player and normally reload at $20, then don't hesitate to let me know, as I will do my best to accommodate your needs.

Cheers,
David

one more important thing, can this site do wire transfers? pokerstars is the only one that bank wires my withdrawals, all other sites dont, thats why i keep playing there even if i hardly make any money doing so. just asking if hero poker can do bankwire withdrawals/deposits.


lastly: can the site do money xfers from stars players so i can deposit without jumping hoops from stars to ftp to click2pay to hero?

On March 28 2011 23:17 whamm! wrote: one more important thing, can this site do wire transfers? pokerstars is the only one that bank wires my withdrawals, all other sites dont, thats why i keep playing there even if i hardly make any money doing so. just asking if hero poker can do bankwire withdrawals/deposits.

Yes, we can, and if the central office is unable to do it because of size, then I can give you an alternative.
Just PM if you consider it.

p.s. we have a daily Balkans freeroll for $10 every day you might want to check out, its an on going promotion.

Cheers,
David