Bitcoin's and the future of online banking - Page 35

I wasn’t talking about changing the world, merely that it’s very risky to speculate bitcoin and for everyone to do it wisely.

Do not confused ideals with fiscal responsibility. In a perfect world I wish there were no government and people were all free, but I live in the real world.

I’m just calling it like it is as always.

If government blocks a free thinking idea. Gg world. Freedom or death am I right. I am not going to be a slave.

Yea I’m only going to talk with Baal as the other two are completely missing my point and insinuating I’m some sort of capitalist greedy pro government pig.......

Baal it could happen but the chance is too low for me to continue speculating at current prices.

I think the volume in bitcoins moving between speculators and the volume moving between consumer and merchant is way out of whack. Are there figures for it? I think for every 9999 bitcoins moved maybe 1 is being used to buy something for consumption.

Personally I traded maybe 20k worth of bitcoin I never bought anything with it and I think a lot of people in my boat.

On September 15 2017 03:27 jfound888 wrote: If government blocks a free thinking idea. Gg world. Freedom or death am I right. I am not going to be a slave.

My kids will read about your heroic actions when they grow up in a world of utopia! Ty in advance

Wobbly it is in its infancy. What do you expect to change the whole financial system in this short period of time. Seriously if cryptos do not work. It is gg world. You want your grand kids to have freedom right? If they crush one idea they do not like when will they stop?

On September 15 2017 03:29 wobbly_au wrote: Yea I’m only going to talk with Baal as the other two are completely missing my point and insinuating I’m some sort of capitalist greedy pro government pig....... Baal it could happen but the chance is too low for me to continue speculating at current prices. I think the volume in bitcoins moving between speculators and the volume moving between consumer and merchant is way out of whack. Are there figures for it? I think for every 9999 bitcoins moved maybe 1 is being used to buy something for consumption. Personally I traded maybe 20k worth of bitcoin I never bought anything with it and I think a lot of people in my boat.

yes, unless you're a junkie who regularly buys his shit from the darknet, there's no need to use it. cash and cc work fine irl.

On September 15 2017 02:43 wobbly_au wrote: Show nested quote + On September 15 2017 02:35 Trav94 wrote:   On September 15 2017 02:05 wobbly_au wrote: You speculators are nuts. Gamble it up just make sure you guys dont do it with significant part of your roll. Bitcoin has no intrinsic values, its much much much much much worse than fiat. 99% of people who hold bitcoin use it to speculate and not consume. If you are buying then it should be because you think 10 other people around you also think it will go up in value, ths is the definition of a bubble in progress. Wait you think fiat has intrinsic value? Are you fucking retarded? I bet you think fiat is backed by gold or something right? Have fun when USD turns into Zimbabwe dollars. Good old LP. No I think you are fucking retarded. Im not saying fiat is awesome and the best way for money system to work, but bitcoin is much much worse as it doesnt have government backing. It will NEVER work. Bitcoin theoretically is good, but as soon as it reaches some momentum world governments will shut that shit down.

yes bitcoin is dead. dump now and stay away.

On September 15 2017 02:58 Baalim wrote: Wobbly is right that governments will try to shut it down, BTC is an existencial threat to governments If anything is surprising that they haven't acted upon it, however governments are really slow an inefficient and what Wobbly doesnt see is that if BTC has enough momentum it isnt going to be easy to stop even for governments al lyou can do is forbid exchanges in traditional financial institutions and that might kill it if its early prize-wise but they cant stop P2P transactions so if they react too slow it will be too late to do anything meaningful about it. So far there has been many battles between the internet and governmts and both have have had victories and this is the ultimate battle and probably the most important financial paradigm since the fiat took over gold. I think anyone making certain claims of the outcome of this battle is an idiot, personally I am not a trader I am a holder but I plan to get off the train and lock my profits before this war begins.

very true. it's happening in china right now. they are shutting down bitcoin.

Big red candle with big volume yesterday, if the next candle that follows closes a shooting star we might be looking at next support sans good news around 2600

On September 15 2017 07:15 whamm! wrote: Big red candle with big volume yesterday, if the next candle that follows closes a shooting star we might be looking at next support sans good news around 2600

yes i concur. let us thank china for this wonderful gift.

Wobbly I don't think you fully understand how bitcoin works.

Bitcoin is based on a widely distributed decentralized ledger, meaning it is resistant to government control. Yes, governments can impose regulations on exchanges, but they cannot shut it down as there is no single point of failure.

And bitcoin is not attempting to replace fiat completely: it is a poor unit of account as it has changing value so we can't say "oh gas is worth .001 btc per gallon" as the price is too volatile. However, it is looking to replace banks as a store of value. Instead of allowing a centralized point of failure to be the custodian of your net worth, you control it and can transport it across borders with only a memorized pass phrase in your head. It is mostly fungible (not 100% as it's pseudonymous not anonymous), highly divisible (up to 8 decimal places), unbreakable (paper money can degrade), transportable (good luck carrying gold on a plane), resistant to counterfeiting, and decentralized.

And fiat has no intrinsic value either. It's just currency that people legally must accept as payment for debts and is irredeemable for a commodity (IIRC no currency is currently backed by anything), governments can just print and create it out of thin air. Not even gold has much intrinsic value, do people use it's metallic properties for anything over cheaper and more available metals? But there is a place for all 3. One as a unit of account (fiat), one as jewelry (metals), and one as a store of value that replaces the flawed banking system (cryptocurrency).

I sold a bunch (~20% of my BTC) at 3999.9 when it crossed the trendline under 4k:
https://www.tradingview.com/x/ubXI2Tsq/

It touched 3974 and rebounded quickly, but didn't look very bullish over those 2 days above the trendline so I stayed out.

Was worried about the H&S formation. Didn't exactly know when the best time to rebuy was: woke up yesterday and it had rebounced to 3500 from 3400 so I bought 2/3 back, and put in buy orders for the rest at 3250 and 3000. Not sure how I feel about it: it goes against fundamentals of trading in other industries, but things move too fast in crypto to wait til it crosses back over a support turned resistance level or a moving average.

I think the best approach is to notice when things look bearish and like there will be a correction, to sell and then just buy back at lower psychological support levels. i.e. in the previous correction from ~2500 to 1800, it was looking bearish, so selling at $2450 then buying back at $2k was probably the way to go. Especially for an anti-inflationary revolutionary technology that still has fairly low adoption that I'm very long on, just getting a slightly better price during corrections is attractive, and to save most of my trading system for alts and shitcoins.

On September 15 2017 21:21 Daut wrote: Wobbly I don't think you fully understand how bitcoin works. Bitcoin is based on a widely distributed decentralized ledger, meaning it is resistant to government control. Yes, governments can impose regulations on exchanges, but they cannot shut it down as there is no single point of failure. And bitcoin is not attempting to replace fiat completely: it is a poor unit of account as it has changing value so we can't say "oh gas is worth .001 btc per gallon" as the price is too volatile. However, it is looking to replace banks as a store of value. Instead of allowing a centralized point of failure to be the custodian of your net worth, you control it and can transport it across borders with only a memorized pass phrase in your head. It is mostly fungible (not 100% as it's pseudonymous not anonymous), highly divisible (up to 8 decimal places), unbreakable (paper money can degrade), transportable (good luck carrying gold on a plane), resistant to counterfeiting, and decentralized. And fiat has no intrinsic value either. It's just currency that people legally must accept as payment for debts and is irredeemable for a commodity (IIRC no currency is currently backed by anything), governments can just print and create it out of thin air. Not even gold has much intrinsic value, do people use it's metallic properties for anything over cheaper and more available metals? But there is a place for all 3. One as a unit of account (fiat), one as jewelry (metals), and one as a store of value that replaces the flawed banking system (cryptocurrency).

That is so 101 ofcourse I understand all that.... did you read every post I wrote?

Yes I did. And my point is, bitcoin is a worse than average payment system. It's not trying to replace visa, it's trying to replace banks. I don't really care what hurdles are in the way of more merchants accepting it.

Banks can use the decentralized technology to secure its ledger but banks will always be controlled by governments unless we see a massive revolution.

On September 15 2017 21:21 Daut wrote: Wobbly I don't think you fully understand how bitcoin works. Bitcoin is based on a widely distributed decentralized ledger, meaning it is resistant to government control. Yes, governments can impose regulations on exchanges, but they cannot shut it down as there is no single point of failure.

And governments cant shutdown online gambling too but they can make it so difficult to move funds that it scares away non-hardcore players, I think they can do the same to BTC in its early stages, if they declare illegal to hold/trade BTC and close all cashout/buying avenues while it doesnt stop BTC it could hurt it so much it simply is forgotten.

Thats why I think timing is crucial, if BTC has enough momentum government wont be able to stop it, and thankfully for us governments are very narrowsighted, slow and inefficiente because if I were in control and looking for the sate wellbeing I would have already banned BTC, called it terrorist-support coin and threatened people using it with Guantanamo because cryptos would be scarier than 100 NorthKoreas combined

On September 15 2017 22:41 wobbly_au wrote: Banks can use the decentralized technology to secure its ledger but banks will always be controlled by governments unless we see a massive revolution.

they can? how??? is it permisionless and is it going to use proof of work?

On September 15 2017 23:00 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On September 15 2017 21:21 Daut wrote: Wobbly I don't think you fully understand how bitcoin works. Bitcoin is based on a widely distributed decentralized ledger, meaning it is resistant to government control. Yes, governments can impose regulations on exchanges, but they cannot shut it down as there is no single point of failure. And governments cant shutdown online gambling too but they can make it so difficult to move funds that it scares away non-hardcore players, I think they can do the same to BTC in its early stages, if they declare illegal to hold/trade BTC and close all cashout/buying avenues while it doesnt stop BTC it could hurt it so much it simply is forgotten. Thats why I think timing is crucial, if BTC has enough momentum government wont be able to stop it, and thankfully for us governments are very narrowsighted, slow and inefficiente because if I were in control and looking for the sate wellbeing I would have already banned BTC, called it terrorist-support coin and threatened people using it with Guantanamo because cryptos would be scarier than 100 NorthKoreas combined

they can make it difficult but they cant stop it. its same with bittorrent.

On September 16 2017 00:29 lucky331 wrote: Show nested quote + On September 15 2017 23:00 Baalim wrote:   On September 15 2017 21:21 Daut wrote: Wobbly I don't think you fully understand how bitcoin works. Bitcoin is based on a widely distributed decentralized ledger, meaning it is resistant to government control. Yes, governments can impose regulations on exchanges, but they cannot shut it down as there is no single point of failure. And governments cant shutdown online gambling too but they can make it so difficult to move funds that it scares away non-hardcore players, I think they can do the same to BTC in its early stages, if they declare illegal to hold/trade BTC and close all cashout/buying avenues while it doesnt stop BTC it could hurt it so much it simply is forgotten. Thats why I think timing is crucial, if BTC has enough momentum government wont be able to stop it, and thankfully for us governments are very narrowsighted, slow and inefficiente because if I were in control and looking for the sate wellbeing I would have already banned BTC, called it terrorist-support coin and threatened people using it with Guantanamo because cryptos would be scarier than 100 NorthKoreas combined they can make it difficult but they cant stop it. its same with bittorrent.

online poker is a better analogy since it works with money flow and some still offer US games but risk it, it would be the same thing and tell me if the UIEGA had no severe impact on online poker and that was only 1 country

sure. but online poker sites are not decentralized systems. but i get the point.