Bitcoin's and the future of online banking - Page 52

On January 27 2018 13:51 Spitfiree wrote: Show nested quote + On January 27 2018 09:37 eestwood wrote: hard to short crypto at the moment ... why?

well, orher than the margin trade itself, I am not aware of a reliable way to short crypto, especially altcoins..

On January 27 2018 01:35 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On January 26 2018 12:08 lucky331 wrote: if you do 10x leverage and the market eats up your bankroll then you're out of the game. say you have 2k, and you do 10x leverage. then bitcoin moves against you that's worth your 2k. you're out. oh I thought it was like banks that you were given 10x your capital in a debt-like scenario, so basically all you do is amplify the variance, but then who covers your profits I mean, from where does that capital come from if unlike a straight market you arent bettinga gainst other investors, the exchange?

to get 10x margin you have to be holding some coins in your account. if you have 1000 worth if bitcoins you can trade 10,000 worth but if the market move goes 1000 worth against you, your trade is auto closed and you are down 1000.

From my understanding there's no need for the exchange/broker to ever cover profits, its just a loan that gets paid back with interest on something that is purchased (its not like a sports bet). If you borrow 50k to purchase 100k worth of X, and then the value of X goes up to 200k, the broker/exchange just gets back the 50k with interest. Your profit just comes from the fact that your X increased in value. If X goes down in value too much, the broker will either force you to deposit more to your account or will liquidate the position.

Would be interesting to see exactly how this works in the crypto world though since the prices can move so fast. I imagine for larger orders they might sometimes have trouble selling before the price dips further than the account holders initial stake, so they might actually take a loss. I'm guessing they make up for this by just having nastier interest rates/fees than regular markets.

Well it would be most likely limited to a few currencies that have a fast liquidity - in our case it would be BTC/ETH i guess, its not like this is the FX market and you can put out orders for 100k on altcoins that would get snatched up instantly.


Also can someone explain why does the price of Tether vary? If its backed by 1 USD, why should ithave fluctuating price? The market should theoretically always be able to pay out 1 to 1 with Tether profiting off fees themselves? Is it based on the exchanges not currently having enough volume/have too much volume to sell/buy ?

So the ponzi scheme popped? Run guys, we all got screwed

that BTC graph seems skewed to fit the narrative

maybe. but that's the market cycle. it's like nature.

no its just one of the many market patters otherwise investing in the market would be extremely easy to solve

i agree. but the funny thing is that pattern keeps on repeating itself, though not exactly, in all market bubbles. people, in general, will always be sheep and it's that exact reason that pattern keeps repeating itself.

Just buy 8k and 5k, and if it gets there 3k, no worries

On February 03 2018 04:07 lucky331 wrote: i agree. but the funny thing is that pattern keeps on repeating itself, though not exactly, in all market bubbles. people, in general, will always be sheep and it's that exact reason that pattern keeps repeating itself.

There are so many graphs in the financial markets you could draw any pattern and find it reappearing in different charts. Just because someone drew a line through a graph and then extended it to fit his theory doesn't verify the "trendline". It is just fantasy. I could draw the same line on the graphs history and then extend the future line to a completely different direction. Then i could go on and say that the red line is bulshit and the true trendline is actually mine, purple. Because potato. And we would be equally right.

then explain why bubbles keep happening.

that ain't no fantasy.

explain why you think the economy should be a straight line

On February 03 2018 11:18 lucky331 wrote: then explain why bubbles keep happening. that ain't no fantasy.

not sure if serious - but if serious ill just say this - human nature & ignorance, thats why

On February 03 2018 16:56 Spitfiree wrote: human nature & ignorance, thats why

Well I think that's what he's saying, just that human nature and ignorance can follow certain patterns. I really don't have any experience attempting to trade based on technical analysis or anything but it seems reasonable that it would work, but just like poker and sports betting 99% of people engaged in it think they're winners when they aren't.

what markets are we talking about? in crypto world, yes humans likely account for majority of the trading nowadays. In equity, fx markets 50% or more of the volume is done by sofisticated algos that don't have your predictable patterns

On February 03 2018 19:05 eestwood wrote: what markets are we talking about? in crypto world, yes humans likely account for majority of the trading nowadays. In equity, fx markets 50% or more of the volume is done by sofisticated algos that don't have your predictable patterns

Well also that the humans engaging trading in crypto are a lot more inexperienced than their human stock market counterparts. I feel like technical analysis or whatever graph reading may have been useful for a while in the 70s or 80s or something, then died down as institutions and high frequency trading really started taking over, but crypto brings an entirely new breed of fish and with the institutions not yet entrenched its viable again, maybe.

On February 03 2018 18:40 NMcNasty wrote: Show nested quote + On February 03 2018 16:56 Spitfiree wrote: human nature & ignorance, thats why Well I think that's what he's saying, just that human nature and ignorance can follow certain pattern.

then I'd say he falls under the ignorant group in this case

crypto is here to stay, lightning network will be the thing that determines what happens with bitcoin at this point, but people believing that the crypto market is a "ponzi scheme" or a "bubble" are delirious, in terms of reality every market is basically a bubble - its a point of perception

there's a reason why there financial crises happen, its people's irrationality, those swings WILL happen, question is will you be able to get ahead of them, doesn't matter what market it is... its just extremely hilarious that everyone targets the crypto market with that FUD atm... I even read that Jordan Belfort said bitcoin's price will eventually fall to 0$ - just points out how little he knows about blockchain ... now I'd say that is a very real possibility if lightning network fails completely and years pass without bitcoin developing but what are the chances of that? 1/100000000 ? Would any adequate person state something like that on such chances? Even if bitcoin dies eventually the crypto market will not. Genjix was right, everyone that didn't follow his advice back in 2012(?) is a shortsighted mofo ( probably all of us - how many of us think back at the time when he was telling us to buy BTC for 1$ but didn't really see much point in doing so) and blockchain will completely change the world. Might as well hop on the train and try to profit out of it while supporting it.

P.S. Currently trying to learn TA and that is quite complicated. Before knowing anything about TA i thought there are just given patterns you could learn, follow and profit - oh boy was I wrong.

P.S2 read this https://hackernoon.com/how-to-crush-t...atever-you-want-the-rest-27a4a3cc2bb1 - people following crypto probably already have - other articles point out far are people from being late to enter the market, how probably less than 1% of people own crypto and guess how many of them actual use products based on blockchain ( considering most of these projects dont even have a working product yet)

P.S.3 look at those bubbles bro



P.S4 can we not EVER have another dumb discussion on how this bubble will burst (dont get me wrong probably over 90% of current coins will disappear, there's a reason people call them shitcoins)? People that believe that are 3 types
1- People that havent read anything regarding the technology, the ideology and its goals (sad part is there are many people in this group that TALKS about the subject which shows how fucking dumb they are, judging stuff that they don't understand is so awesome)
2- Speculators that want to dip the market to buy in cheap
3- People that are blinded by denial due to fear of change ( I'd say this is the worst group)

If you cant comprehend how big of an opportunity it is to be able to invest into companies that will change the world, then start educating yourself or shut the fuck up.

On February 03 2018 16:56 Spitfiree wrote: Show nested quote + On February 03 2018 11:18 lucky331 wrote: then explain why bubbles keep happening. that ain't no fantasy. not sure if serious - but if serious ill just say this - human nature & ignorance, thats why

exactly. humans are mostly sheep.

and when i say market bubble, i don't mean "bubble" as in how you guys define it. anything in the market can become a "bubble".