A perfect poker setup, part #1: a good chair!

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Garfed Malta. Nov 26 2011 15:31. Posts 4818

You can see this all around: poker players throwing money away at often ridiculous stuff, buying the most expensive and luxury things that they often get bored with within days. But even high stakes grinders often don't care or simply underestimate effects of having a proper poker grinding setup. No, I'm not talking only about buying a fast desktop computer and 2* 30"Dell Monitor that covers playing on 40 titled tables at once; I will try to talk about this as well, but first I would like to focus on something that's been bothering myself lately: a comfortable chair.

It might sound ridiculous, but I would argue this is one of the most important parts of every poker setup, especially for players that tend to spend 8-10 hours, or even more, per day in front of their computer. A good chair will make not only your posture correct ( which will result in less health problems in few years ), relief back pain during long session, but will simply make you win more - the more comfortable you are, the longer you can sustain focus and play your "A" game. It's as simple as that.

There is quite a big choice of good ergonomic chairs on the market, and as I spent 3 full days riding around and trying various chairs to have a good comparison, I will try to give my own opinion on the most worthwhile ones.

Order of reviews is random, I will give a summary at the end. I'm going to skip on all 'presidential leather' chairs, as those are not adjustable and there is about a million of them available - if you want one like those, just go and test them yourself!

1) Herman Miller - Aeron

The Aeron chair is long in the tooth as office chairs go, having been introduced to the market way back in 1994, and is a signature "dot.com" chair that revolutionized market for office chairs, by being a first company to use a mesh instead of classical materials. It's also available in million configurations, you can choose base color, mechanism and back spine color ( black/white ) and seat material coor.

Long story short, this is an extremely comfortable chair that comes in 3 sizes ( A,B,C ) that should fit pretty much everyone. There are ton of versions of the chair, with standard black or aluminum polished base ( it's for looks only, costs are significantly higher for the aluminum option ), different back support options ( lumbar or posture fit, with the second one being better and more expensive ).

Mesh material was a spot on hit - it's not only comfortable to sit at, but provides a good air conditioning, which helps a lot, especially during summer. The chair doesn't offer a head support, but that's Herman Millers policy, as none of their chair have that option. I'm not a huge fan of it, so it wasn't a problem for me.
Whole chair is TOP A quality, design is slick and nice, but that's obviously my personal opinion.

Biggest downside? Cost obviously, in Europe this chair retails at $1500 in the best setup, and around $1200 for the basic one. In USA it goes for around $720 for a new basic setup ( black base, lumbar option, fully adjustable ) and around ~$1000 for the fully loaded option.

The chair also comes with a 12 yeas warranty on mechanism + 3 year on gas cylinder + 5 year on material. However, if you materials wears out after warranty period, it's possible to replace parts like seat pane, or back, without replacing whole chair, at lower cost.

Worth a note: If you would want to buy it, make sure you ask if it's fully adjustable option, and not just up/down and lay back model. Also, even this comes with a 12 year warranty, it covers only ORIGINAL BUYER, which means if you bought this second hand you are not eligible for warranty, even if the chair is week old.

More information about Aeron chair: http://www.hermanmiller.com/Products/Aeron-Chairs

2) Herman Miller - Embody

This is quite a new model ( 2006 ) from Herman Miller that's supposed to be successor of Aeron.

The prize is WAY higher, especially in Europe. In USA this chair retails at around $1090 for the basic option ( worse material, standard black base ) and around $1390 for the fully loaded one ( aluminum base, better material ). However, in Europe I was quoted at $1300 for the basic option ( inc VAT ), and around $1800 ( yes, 1800 ) for the fully loaded option. There is also one size option only, but it's supposed to fit 98% of people. It's also available in million configurations, you can choose base color, mechanism and back spine color ( black/white ) and seat material coor.

Herman Millers policy regarding 12 year warranty and second hand products applies here as well.

Let's talk about Embody then: it looks fuc%@*ng amazing. Seriously, this thing looks huge, and looks like a bionic spine. This is obviously a personal opinion, but I loved it, it looks exclusive and doesn't really make your home office/poker setup feel like a call center setup with 100 people around in their cubicles.

The most important part obviously, is the back panel. Herman Miller claims at their site that "a matrix of pixels creates dynamic seat-and-back surfaces that automatically conform to your every movement and distribute your weight evenly." They also say it will even help your heart rate and other insane stuff, which is hugely exaggerating, but one thing is sure here: this thing 'moves' with you. If you try to turn your body by a small margin, while still putting pressure on the back, it will adjust, thanks to the multiple panels on the chair.

Arm rests also have more configuration option then Aeron ( you can adjust how close to body you want them ), however the back support is less configurable, as the back curve is pre-set and can only be configured by setting a proper level of tension. You can also adjust the depth of the seat.

So how does it feel? Do you know those hard-foam pillows that are supposed to adjust to your body? I have one of those ( from Ikea, paid like 15$ for it ) and I cant imagine sleeping on a standard pillow now. I mentioned it simply since Embody is close to that, basically the mechanism covers your whole back when you sit in it, which could make it comparable to an expensive suit tailored exactly for your body, even there are less adjustable options the on Aeron. I sat in it completely straight, close to standing posture ( which is supposed to be perfect for your health ), and I simply didn't feel the chair at all. It didn't change after half an hour, if the effect stays same for 10 hours straight, this has to be one of the most amazing things ever designed.

This is unfortunately a clear winner for me from all ~30 chairs I sat in, if not the cost I would be buying this in a heartbeat. However, this thing IS EXPENSIVE, so let's take a look at other alternatives.

More info about Embody: http://www.hermanmiller.com/Products/Embody-Chairs

3) Humanscale Freedom Chair

Prize level here is comparable to basic Aeron option, it costs around 750-800$, pretty hard to get in Europe, no problem in USA. Happily, I have a friend who owns it, so I had an opportunity to test ride it.

Standard material, no mesh, which I now consider a worse option, but I'm pretty sure some people will favor it hugely over mesh. The chair itself is supposed to adjust itself to your body ( hence the Freedom name ), and it does the job pretty well. As opposed to previous two chairs, it does have a head rest, which will make quite a lot of people consider it over chairs without head-rest.

My personal opinion: I didn't like it. I prefer to set the chair as I want it, I didn't like the headrest and used material.

More information about the chair: http://www.humanscale.com/products/pr...fm?group=FreedomTaskChairWithHeadrest

4) Eurotech Ergohuman

This costs around $550 ( cost is pretty much the same in USA/EU) for a brand new chair ( $750 for the version 2 with improved tilt mechanism that makes your whole chair lean back instead of just back panel ), and provides higher number of adjustments then any other chair out here I think. Material used is mesh, same one as in Aeron, but it's also possible to get a leather one for a few bucks more. You can adjust almost everything here, and even arm rests have 4 adjustment options ( height, direction, how far they are in front/back, and how close/far away from body ).

The base is aluminum, which makes it looks quite exclusive and nice ( especially you don't have to pay extra for it, as opposed to other brands ), and it comes with a headrest that you can take off if you don't like it - a huge plus.

Verdict? I liked it a lot... but! There is a major con, that I hated and made me not buy it. Some people will say it's funny but.. the arm rests don't have an option to block them ( only height regulation is block-able, 3 other option use pure physical force to adjust ), which makes them loose a little ( maybe half a centimeter each way, not much ) and that really irritated me. Basically if you try to shake them, you can do that freely in every direction, and it made me feel like I'm paying quite some money for something that's about to fall apart ( well , in EU you get 5 year warranty, but regardless it was irritating ).

In the end, I think the quality of the product should be way better for the prize.

More info about Ergohuman: http://ergohuman.com/products/Ergohum...h-Headrest-and-Leather-and-Mesh-.html

5) Ikea - Markus chair

This is a low budget option, this chair costs ~$200 and comes from one of the biggest worldwide furniture shops, Ikea.

There is not much to say about it besides it's a very solid, comfortable chair.

Obviously it doesnt offer as many adjustable options as more expensive chairs, as you can adjust height,tilt function and that's about it. It also has a built-in lumbar support which provides extra relief and support for your back, very comparable to basic Aeron lumbar support, however this one is not adjustable as opposed to Aeron. The headrest is also really nice in my opinion, as it doesn't "force" it's use, as opposed to Ergohuman or Steelcase chairs, where it sticks way forward.

The chair is a hybrid made from mesh ( back support ) and leather ( head rest and seat ). Worst thing? Arm rests are not adjustable at all, and they were way too low for me, meaning my hands were floating in the air. Best thing? It's probably the best chair you can get for 200$.

More info about Markus chair: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/00103102/

Few other chairs I didn't look at ( or didn't have option to test them ) and might be worth considering:
-Humanscale Liberty Chair, comparable to Freedoman, but little different ( mesh back ), I had no access to it
-Other Eurotech chairs: Ergohuman is the only one available world-wide, and the rest is just slightly cheaper, so it's not really worth considering them at the moment.
-Other Herman Miller chairs ( I tested them, but they were not that good to pay over 1k in Europe for them, so not really worth a mention, maybe Mirra is worth consideration, but back is made from a soft-plastic a-like which I hated )
-Random leather chairs, as mentioned in the begging.
-Amazing and stunning FitBall Chair, check spoiler tag:
+ Show Spoiler +

My personal summary:
1) Best comfort and overall feeling: Herman Miller Embody, nothing comes even close when it comes to comfort for me. As I said previously, if this chair didn't cost ~$2k in Poland, I would already have it. This prize is ridiculous for a chair, and I find it irrational that the cost is double of what it costs in USA.
2) Best price/quality and comfort - USA: Aeron, as you can get a fully loaded version ( fully adjustabe, posture fit kit, but with black base ) for 738$ now with sale on HermanMiller's site ( till December 12th 2011). Consider this a 12 year investment, and this turns out to be a great value.
3) Best price/quality and comfort - Europe: Really hard to say. If not the fact that Herman Millers chair cost TWICE as much as in USA ( yes, twice ), they would be a clear winner here. However, I would say Ergohuman is a pretty good choice here, as for $500 you can get a really nice mesh chair with ton of configuration options.
4) Low budget : Ikea Markus, all day long. To be honest if the arm rests fit you without problem, I think I would get this over Ergohuman, as it costs 1/3 of the prize and looks nicer in your house/apartment environment. I liked it a lot.

Last, but most important advice: you should NEVER, EVER buy a chair without an option to sit in it first. If you are in USA it's no problem as most of companies offer a 30 day return policy, in Europe it's way more problematic.

All opinions in this blog are my personal, so please don't blame me if you order something without testing it first and don't like it.
Just to make it easier to compare I am 178cm / 75kg.

0 votes

Last edit: 26/11/2011 18:39

Mariuslol Norway. Nov 26 2011 15:58. Posts 4742

Nice writeup, thanks.

rubbago Mexico. Nov 26 2011 16:15. Posts 257

On November 26 2011 14:58 Mariuslol wrote:
Nice writeup, thanks.

Twitter: @rubbago

PuertoRican United States. Nov 26 2011 17:53. Posts 13127

I've always wanted to get a "Herman Miller - Embody" since I first saw it, but it's expensive for someone who isn't a poker baller.

5 stars.

Rekrul is a newb

DaEm0niCuS United States. Nov 26 2011 20:09. Posts 3292

I think you like chairs a little too much yo. Anyone who actually buys these chairs is A. a huge tool or B. way too rich

DaEm0niCuS United States. Nov 26 2011 20:10. Posts 3292

you must be bored as fuck to make such a detailed post about chairs.

Daut

United States. Nov 26 2011 20:14. Posts 8955

i think getting a chair that costs more than 80 bucks is a total whale move. ive sat in some of the ergonomic chairs, the 200-400 dollar chairs and the cheap ones, and i honestly felt most comfortable in some of the cheap ones

NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut

k4ir0s Canada. Nov 26 2011 20:22. Posts 3478

Nice! the embody looks amazing..

ever since I got my first laptop, I can't imagine going back to sitting at a desk. Don't you guys find it uncomfortable sitting straight up at your desk for long hours? Doesn't it give you back pains?? Just the act of sitting straight for long hours gives me pains, but I have abit of a back problem, plus I haven't really owned an expensive computer chair before.

I usually just sit on my reclining chair, with my laptop on my lap, or on the arm of the chair. I know that's probably bad on my back, but I don't get any pains :S

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -Oly

woezy Belgium. Nov 26 2011 21:36. Posts 119

My first real chair was the Marcus. Was decent for the money, but the lumbar support broke down quickly and then it sucked.
After some research I bought the Embody. It is pretty much crazy money for a chair, but it should be a purchase for a long time. And if it allows you to play 1h more a month or play more focused in a good position without pain I guess it pays for itself in a short time. Might sound like a huge tool, but I don't regret the purchase even the slightest

Last edit: 26/11/2011 21:40

ShLiM United Kingdom. Nov 26 2011 23:40. Posts 940

where did u found ergohuman on eu online stores?

Seat 5: patatino showed [Qd 2d] and won ($609,730) with a pair of Twos

Highcard Canada. Nov 26 2011 23:44. Posts 5428

On November 26 2011 19:09 DaEm0niCuS wrote:
I think you like chairs a little too much yo. Anyone who actually buys these chairs is A. a huge tool or B. way too rich

the only tool here is you

I have learned from poker that being at the table is not a grind, the grind is living and poker is how I pass the time

Highcard Canada. Nov 26 2011 23:47. Posts 5428

Good review man, was nice to hear more your thoughts on some chairs, going to go check some out in a couple weeks but seems like i will like the embody if it fits me like it did you

I have learned from poker that being at the table is not a grind, the grind is living and poker is how I pass the time

edzwoo United States. Nov 27 2011 01:04. Posts 5911

I bought an Aeron and Jason bought an Embody. Jason literally keeps the Embody in the corner of his room now and hangs his clothes on it. He bought a $200 chair that Teng (Acckerman) has, which is actually really really comfortable: http://www.staples.com/Staples-Valeri...s-Mid-Back-Chair-Black/product_796525

None of us really thought the Embody was all that great, much less worth the price tag. My Aeron is really awesome though.

Jas0n United States. Nov 27 2011 01:09. Posts 1866

Probably should've sat in the Embody a little longer before I decided to buy it

Garfed Malta. Nov 27 2011 05:04. Posts 4818

On November 26 2011 19:14 Daut wrote:
i think getting a chair that costs more than 80 bucks is a total whale move. ive sat in some of the ergonomic chairs, the 200-400 dollar chairs and the cheap ones, and i honestly felt most comfortable in some of the cheap ones

Whatever fits you best However even the basic Ikea model with lumbar support is miles ahead of any other chair when it comes to comfort, you should check that out if you have a chance.

On November 26 2011 22:40 ShLiM wrote:
where did u found ergohuman on eu online stores?

You will have to google it, it's sold by many companies under different names ( Raynor Ergohuman, Eurotech Ergohuman, Ergomax Ergohuman etc ) - all those ergohuman chairs are manufactured in China by one company and then are being re-sold by various companies all around the world.

On November 26 2011 22:47 Highcard wrote:
Good review man, was nice to hear more your thoughts on some chairs, going to go check some out in a couple weeks but seems like i will like the embody if it fits me like it did you

Thanks, and yeah - make sure you check it out before you buy it - edzwoos and Jas0ns post show why u should do that.

Everyone is different, and it will vary what will fit you best!

Last edit: 27/11/2011 05:51

EvilSky

Czech Republic. Nov 27 2011 05:42. Posts 8918

GiYoM Korea (South). Nov 27 2011 07:42. Posts 455

sick long post. I have both herman miller Aeron chair and herman miller embody chair in korea. If anyone reading this wants to buy either one, pm me. Both chairs have been bought in 2011.

barbieman Sweden. Nov 27 2011 11:04. Posts 2132

I already have what I consider to be a comfy chair, will check out the Markus chair and see what I think.
Nice post and I look forward to the next post about grinding setup.

The M Show Canada. Nov 27 2011 12:03. Posts 278

i have the ikea chair its pretty solid.

MysticJoey Poland. Nov 27 2011 17:37. Posts 1430

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