Why did you quit playing online? - Page 5

That said if you have the work ethic & intelligence of a good poker player, combine that with some social skills and you make so much money in business. So much opportunities out there for smart people like you guys.

On November 15 2014 08:22 ClouD87 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 15 2014 03:52 bigredhoss wrote: sure, but there's plenty of jobs where rewards are correlated with effort/ability. I am not sure what kind of skewed experience you had, but real world does not really work like that. In fact jobs like poker that reward your ability right away are very rare and only for a certain segment of the population. In case you didn't notice the world is built mostly to accomodate people with mediocre expectations, and jobs also reflect that.

sales do. But it's a tough field.
So is being self employed/having your own business really. But that's even tougher and the failure rate is high.

But then again it requires a lot of effort to find fulfillment in a 9-5 job as well and not fall into the standard annoyed at job+drinking/junk food/no exercise/no value added entertainment limbo.

On November 15 2014 08:22 ClouD87 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 15 2014 03:52 bigredhoss wrote: sure, but there's plenty of jobs where rewards are correlated with effort/ability. I am not sure what kind of skewed experience you had, but real world does not really work like that. In fact jobs like poker that reward your ability right away are very rare and only for a certain segment of the population. In case you didn't notice the world is built mostly to accomodate people with mediocre expectations, and jobs also reflect that.

i'd be surprised if anyone on this forum agreed with your sentiment that "poker rewards your ability right away"

On November 16 2014 12:43 mnj wrote: Show nested quote + On November 15 2014 08:22 ClouD87 wrote:   On November 15 2014 03:52 bigredhoss wrote: sure, but there's plenty of jobs where rewards are correlated with effort/ability. I am not sure what kind of skewed experience you had, but real world does not really work like that. In fact jobs like poker that reward your ability right away are very rare and only for a certain segment of the population. In case you didn't notice the world is built mostly to accomodate people with mediocre expectations, and jobs also reflect that. i'd be surprised if anyone on this forum agreed with your sentiment that "poker rewards your ability right away"

It really does compared to many other business that take years to build up even if you are incredibly competent. Also the results are proportional to the volume played aswell so you can decide to go at your own pace, wether you prefer to do it slowly and taking your time or quickly by hammering yourself with playtime and study.

By the way I recognize many people have a different opinion here and I will not say I am 100% correct, but I actually traveled the world a lot and I've met lots of people, and from my own experience thinking that having a job that rewards your ability at the speed poker does is easily achievable sounds crazy to me. I haven't studied at university and instead had a couple jobs as a manager before aswell in esports fields in Italy (for an esports journal and team manager-esports events) and I believe most people who didn't actually work a standard bullshit job won't understand how dehumanizing and frustrating it is and how much of a waste of time it feels. My dad is a manager at a big italian bank in Milan and he could get me a lifetime job there with the possibility of promotions and improvement, but I will never choose an uninteresting job that forces me to deal with frustrated people and I will never ever suggest anyone to do that choice.
I believe a person can't be happy being stale and without improvement, you always have to do something that challenges you somehow or you start to die inside no matter how young you are. You might disagree with me on this but I still perceive the negativity around poker in this forum as childish and pointless since nobody can objectively say it's a bad job in any circumstance.

what you perceive as childish and pointless negativity is simply reality that you are either too naive or stubborn to understand.

On November 16 2014 15:44 ClouD87 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 16 2014 12:43 mnj wrote:   On November 15 2014 08:22 ClouD87 wrote:   On November 15 2014 03:52 bigredhoss wrote: sure, but there's plenty of jobs where rewards are correlated with effort/ability. I am not sure what kind of skewed experience you had, but real world does not really work like that. In fact jobs like poker that reward your ability right away are very rare and only for a certain segment of the population. In case you didn't notice the world is built mostly to accomodate people with mediocre expectations, and jobs also reflect that. i'd be surprised if anyone on this forum agreed with your sentiment that "poker rewards your ability right away" It really does compared to many other business that take years to build up even if you are incredibly competent. Also the results are proportional to the volume played aswell so you can decide to go at your own pace, wether you prefer to do it slowly and taking your time or quickly by hammering yourself with playtime and study. By the way I recognize many people have a different opinion here and I will not say I am 100% correct, but I actually traveled the world a lot and I've met lots of people, and from my own experience thinking that having a job that rewards your ability at the speed poker does is easily achievable sounds crazy to me. I haven't studied at university and instead had a couple jobs as a manager before aswell in esports fields in Italy (for an esports journal and team manager-esports events) and I believe most people who didn't actually work a standard bullshit job won't understand how dehumanizing and frustrating it is and how much of a waste of time it feels. My dad is a manager at a big italian bank in Milan and he could get me a lifetime job there with the possibility of promotions and improvement, but I will never choose an uninteresting job that forces me to deal with frustrated people and I will never ever suggest anyone to do that choice. I believe a person can't be happy being stale and without improvement, you always have to do something that challenges you somehow or you start to die inside no matter how young you are. You might disagree with me on this but I still perceive the negativity around poker in this forum as childish and pointless since nobody can objectively say it's a bad job in any circumstance.

Fulfillment doesn't come from growth at work only. There are a lot of people in jobs with very slow or none progression that are very happy/satisfied because they simply love what they are doing, have a great collective of people around them, or use their jobs just means for their devotion to family, or healthy living or their own projects outside work. If with the right approach and mindfulness monks can lead very enriching lives in a Buddhist monastery then sure as hell it's possible in a regular job.

I for one decided to give poker a shot after I worked for years and studied abroad till I was 25, and without it I would not come back to my home country and reconnected with my family and people I love, I wouldn't drop 20kg in a year and wouldn't read all these amazing books, dabbled into psychology, buddhism and workouts. Like if I quit right now then despite my shortcomings I'd remember the year I only played as one of the best years of my life.

But you can't be surprised at people who quit their education early, instead of getting real life connections when they have the most energy in their 19s and early 20s sat at home, didn't use poker as an opportunity for bettering themselves but as just an easy way to make money and then inevitably burned out. And that'll be most people here who followed the path of Starcraft=>Uni/(often quit)=>poker.

On November 16 2014 16:58 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Show nested quote + On November 16 2014 15:44 ClouD87 wrote:   On November 16 2014 12:43 mnj wrote:   On November 15 2014 08:22 ClouD87 wrote:   On November 15 2014 03:52 bigredhoss wrote: sure, but there's plenty of jobs where rewards are correlated with effort/ability. I am not sure what kind of skewed experience you had, but real world does not really work like that. In fact jobs like poker that reward your ability right away are very rare and only for a certain segment of the population. In case you didn't notice the world is built mostly to accomodate people with mediocre expectations, and jobs also reflect that. i'd be surprised if anyone on this forum agreed with your sentiment that "poker rewards your ability right away" It really does compared to many other business that take years to build up even if you are incredibly competent. Also the results are proportional to the volume played aswell so you can decide to go at your own pace, wether you prefer to do it slowly and taking your time or quickly by hammering yourself with playtime and study. By the way I recognize many people have a different opinion here and I will not say I am 100% correct, but I actually traveled the world a lot and I've met lots of people, and from my own experience thinking that having a job that rewards your ability at the speed poker does is easily achievable sounds crazy to me. I haven't studied at university and instead had a couple jobs as a manager before aswell in esports fields in Italy (for an esports journal and team manager-esports events) and I believe most people who didn't actually work a standard bullshit job won't understand how dehumanizing and frustrating it is and how much of a waste of time it feels. My dad is a manager at a big italian bank in Milan and he could get me a lifetime job there with the possibility of promotions and improvement, but I will never choose an uninteresting job that forces me to deal with frustrated people and I will never ever suggest anyone to do that choice. I believe a person can't be happy being stale and without improvement, you always have to do something that challenges you somehow or you start to die inside no matter how young you are. You might disagree with me on this but I still perceive the negativity around poker in this forum as childish and pointless since nobody can objectively say it's a bad job in any circumstance. Fulfillment doesn't come from growth at work only. There are a lot of people in jobs with very slow or none progression that are very happy/satisfied because they simply love what they are doing, have a great collective of people around them, or use their jobs just means for their devotion to family, or healthy living or their own projects outside work. If with the right approach and mindfulness monks can lead very enriching lives in a Buddhist monastery then sure as hell it's possible in a regular job. I for one decided to give poker a shot after I worked for years and studied abroad till I was 25, and without it I would not come back to my home country and reconnected with my family and people I love, I wouldn't drop 20kg in a year and wouldn't read all these amazing books, dabbled into psychology, buddhism and workouts. Like if I quit right now then despite my shortcomings I'd remember the year I only played as one of the best years of my life. But you can't be surprised at people who quit their education early, instead of getting real life connections when they have the most energy in their 19s and early 20s sat at home, didn't use poker as an opportunity for bettering themselves but as just an easy way to make money and then inevitably burned out. And that'll be most people here who followed the path of Starcraft=>Uni/(often quit)=>poker.

i doubt your last paragraph applies to most people who advise against starting poker as a career in 2014. poker could be the best thing to ever happen to someone in 2005 (even for reasons besides the easy money), that doesn't mean they shouldn't recommend people avoid it as a career today.

+ Show Spoiler +

My problem with poker is you are sort of a social outcast. I moved in with college buddies in my early 20's and never really fit in as much as i tried. I once even tried to apply at a job at target because i thought it would be better than poker (Lol), despite the fact i was making mad bank from poker.

It might be a grass is greener thing, but I was always kind of envious of their have nothing struggle for something lifestyle. I even pretended to be poor around them splitting bills and buying cheap shit like broke college students. It was awesome and some of the best times of my life. Not only did I save a fck load of money, i had fun while i did (didnt play poker or do anything for 5 years) and still have plenty of money. The caveat is that it enabled me to be lazy as hell.

Eventually they finished college and went on to their career jobs and tell me stories about their struggles in the work/life. I, on the other hand never have anything to contribute because as many times as i try to explain to people about poker, i feel they could never understand. So many times i get labeled as gambler or degen and thats the role I play in society a lot, even when i don't want to. This makes me tell strangers I work some made up job because i feel like poker is not a respectable job in the eyes of the public.

At this point, I wanted to open a small business with another partner but things fell through at the last minute and im back to poker. I always wanted a new frontier or something to overcome or a new goal to achieve like when I first started playing poker but was never able to replicate that feeling, the drive to succeed. Feeling like there are no better options I am going to embrace this "poker career" a little longer right now and set up some goals.

I want to really exceed and stop grinding midstakes and score a big tournament and be on television, buy a big house, and cars I guess for now (money buys respect in this world). Saving the world and doing something meaningful with my life is on hold for now.

Going to end with a quote "The most two important times in a mans life is first when he is born, second is when he finds out why he was born." (aka what he wants to do with his life).

On November 16 2014 18:05 bigredhoss wrote: Show nested quote + On November 16 2014 16:58 LemOn[5thF] wrote:   On November 16 2014 15:44 ClouD87 wrote:   On November 16 2014 12:43 mnj wrote:   On November 15 2014 08:22 ClouD87 wrote:   On November 15 2014 03:52 bigredhoss wrote: sure, but there's plenty of jobs where rewards are correlated with effort/ability. I am not sure what kind of skewed experience you had, but real world does not really work like that. In fact jobs like poker that reward your ability right away are very rare and only for a certain segment of the population. In case you didn't notice the world is built mostly to accomodate people with mediocre expectations, and jobs also reflect that. i'd be surprised if anyone on this forum agreed with your sentiment that "poker rewards your ability right away" It really does compared to many other business that take years to build up even if you are incredibly competent. Also the results are proportional to the volume played aswell so you can decide to go at your own pace, wether you prefer to do it slowly and taking your time or quickly by hammering yourself with playtime and study. By the way I recognize many people have a different opinion here and I will not say I am 100% correct, but I actually traveled the world a lot and I've met lots of people, and from my own experience thinking that having a job that rewards your ability at the speed poker does is easily achievable sounds crazy to me. I haven't studied at university and instead had a couple jobs as a manager before aswell in esports fields in Italy (for an esports journal and team manager-esports events) and I believe most people who didn't actually work a standard bullshit job won't understand how dehumanizing and frustrating it is and how much of a waste of time it feels. My dad is a manager at a big italian bank in Milan and he could get me a lifetime job there with the possibility of promotions and improvement, but I will never choose an uninteresting job that forces me to deal with frustrated people and I will never ever suggest anyone to do that choice. I believe a person can't be happy being stale and without improvement, you always have to do something that challenges you somehow or you start to die inside no matter how young you are. You might disagree with me on this but I still perceive the negativity around poker in this forum as childish and pointless since nobody can objectively say it's a bad job in any circumstance. Fulfillment doesn't come from growth at work only. There are a lot of people in jobs with very slow or none progression that are very happy/satisfied because they simply love what they are doing, have a great collective of people around them, or use their jobs just means for their devotion to family, or healthy living or their own projects outside work. If with the right approach and mindfulness monks can lead very enriching lives in a Buddhist monastery then sure as hell it's possible in a regular job. I for one decided to give poker a shot after I worked for years and studied abroad till I was 25, and without it I would not come back to my home country and reconnected with my family and people I love, I wouldn't drop 20kg in a year and wouldn't read all these amazing books, dabbled into psychology, buddhism and workouts. Like if I quit right now then despite my shortcomings I'd remember the year I only played as one of the best years of my life. But you can't be surprised at people who quit their education early, instead of getting real life connections when they have the most energy in their 19s and early 20s sat at home, didn't use poker as an opportunity for bettering themselves but as just an easy way to make money and then inevitably burned out. And that'll be most people here who followed the path of Starcraft=>Uni/(often quit)=>poker. i doubt your last paragraph applies to most people who advise against starting poker as a career in 2014. poker could be the best thing to ever happen to someone in 2005 (even for reasons besides the easy money), that doesn't mean they shouldn't recommend people avoid it as a career today. + Show Spoiler + also confirmed impossible to lose weight, read, or network without poker

I might be wrong, but it does seem that way - how many people here finished university had a career and then moved into poker really?

The good things I talk about affect your performance way faster in poker than other jobs. It really seems that everything I do in life affects my ev at the tables. Where in finance when I came home I could play dota all the time, eat junk food watch bs shows be mediocre and at the end of the day get paid the same with my normalized quarterly bonus because I fit that 85% people in the bell curve. You can optimise your time way better in poker too - simply work when you are at your best, go to the gym or hang out with friends when you aren't feeling like playing. Where in a normal job I'd have to clock my hours in where if I just got up went to the gym, took a nap then returned I'd get way more accomplished that day.

The social aspect also requires a lot of effort in poker where others free roll in this aspect. It really seems to me most people squandered the potential poker gives them - and didn't see things like using the freedom to socialize etc.

I think lefort summed it up well:




I like his advice that every time you run bad or cant get action you get your ass to the gym. ofc its far from a dream job for most people poker's not as grim as you guys make it out to be :D

I didnt quit. I play becouse:
1. Im 30, so Im fucked
2. I like the challenge even if I cant win my 1K/month target lately
3. Eveything you learn you apply it in the games. You have to read about game theory, cognitive psycheology and learn how your body/mind works to have the best performance while playing (what to eat, how to excercise, when to play, etc).
4. I love the freedom

I learnt how to play other poker when there was some dead money yet last year, like Razz, Badugi, Triple draw, Stud 8. Now thoose games are gone since this semester so Im learning HU NLHE cash and I like it. I think the most important is just going forward, otherwise you'll untrain yourself and may fall into a confort zone hole. Just do something where you can evolve. I had easy money before and learnt that money alone will do nothing for your fulfillment.

+ Show Spoiler +

On November 17 2014 02:24 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Show nested quote + On November 16 2014 18:05 bigredhoss wrote:   On November 16 2014 16:58 LemOn[5thF] wrote:   On November 16 2014 15:44 ClouD87 wrote:   On November 16 2014 12:43 mnj wrote:   On November 15 2014 08:22 ClouD87 wrote:   On November 15 2014 03:52 bigredhoss wrote: sure, but there's plenty of jobs where rewards are correlated with effort/ability. I am not sure what kind of skewed experience you had, but real world does not really work like that. In fact jobs like poker that reward your ability right away are very rare and only for a certain segment of the population. In case you didn't notice the world is built mostly to accomodate people with mediocre expectations, and jobs also reflect that. i'd be surprised if anyone on this forum agreed with your sentiment that "poker rewards your ability right away" It really does compared to many other business that take years to build up even if you are incredibly competent. Also the results are proportional to the volume played aswell so you can decide to go at your own pace, wether you prefer to do it slowly and taking your time or quickly by hammering yourself with playtime and study. By the way I recognize many people have a different opinion here and I will not say I am 100% correct, but I actually traveled the world a lot and I've met lots of people, and from my own experience thinking that having a job that rewards your ability at the speed poker does is easily achievable sounds crazy to me. I haven't studied at university and instead had a couple jobs as a manager before aswell in esports fields in Italy (for an esports journal and team manager-esports events) and I believe most people who didn't actually work a standard bullshit job won't understand how dehumanizing and frustrating it is and how much of a waste of time it feels. My dad is a manager at a big italian bank in Milan and he could get me a lifetime job there with the possibility of promotions and improvement, but I will never choose an uninteresting job that forces me to deal with frustrated people and I will never ever suggest anyone to do that choice. I believe a person can't be happy being stale and without improvement, you always have to do something that challenges you somehow or you start to die inside no matter how young you are. You might disagree with me on this but I still perceive the negativity around poker in this forum as childish and pointless since nobody can objectively say it's a bad job in any circumstance. Fulfillment doesn't come from growth at work only. There are a lot of people in jobs with very slow or none progression that are very happy/satisfied because they simply love what they are doing, have a great collective of people around them, or use their jobs just means for their devotion to family, or healthy living or their own projects outside work. If with the right approach and mindfulness monks can lead very enriching lives in a Buddhist monastery then sure as hell it's possible in a regular job. I for one decided to give poker a shot after I worked for years and studied abroad till I was 25, and without it I would not come back to my home country and reconnected with my family and people I love, I wouldn't drop 20kg in a year and wouldn't read all these amazing books, dabbled into psychology, buddhism and workouts. Like if I quit right now then despite my shortcomings I'd remember the year I only played as one of the best years of my life. But you can't be surprised at people who quit their education early, instead of getting real life connections when they have the most energy in their 19s and early 20s sat at home, didn't use poker as an opportunity for bettering themselves but as just an easy way to make money and then inevitably burned out. And that'll be most people here who followed the path of Starcraft=>Uni/(often quit)=>poker. i doubt your last paragraph applies to most people who advise against starting poker as a career in 2014. poker could be the best thing to ever happen to someone in 2005 (even for reasons besides the easy money), that doesn't mean they shouldn't recommend people avoid it as a career today. + Show Spoiler + also confirmed impossible to lose weight, read, or network without poker I might be wrong, but it does seem that way - how many people here finished university had a career and then moved into poker really? The good things I talk about affect your performance way faster in poker than other jobs. It really seems that everything I do in life affects my ev at the tables. Where in finance when I came home I could play dota all the time, eat junk food watch bs shows be mediocre and at the end of the day get paid the same with my normalized quarterly bonus because I fit that 85% people in the bell curve. You can optimise your time way better in poker too - simply work when you are at your best, go to the gym or hang out with friends when you aren't feeling like playing. Where in a normal job I'd have to clock my hours in where if I just got up went to the gym, took a nap then returned I'd get way more accomplished that day. The social aspect also requires a lot of effort in poker where others free roll in this aspect. It really seems to me most people squandered the potential poker gives them - and didn't see things like using the freedom to socialize etc. I think lefort summed it up well: I like his advice that every time you run bad or cant get action you get your ass to the gym. ofc its far from a dream job for most people poker's not as grim as you guys make it out to be :D

You are so stubborn Lem0n it is ridiculous. There is no arguing with you because you just tunnel-vision what you believe is true. Posting some shit slides in hope of "go prove yourself wrong guys" or "this validifies everything i have said and hold true aswell" style of communicating is just rubbish. (often used by other star posters e.g. Gnarly) The point bigredhoss made is everything you achieved outside of poker wasn't because of poker being your choice of profession or the funds that came from it (assuming equally as much could've been made doing x job). The presentation is garbage catered to a specific target group of degenerates with similar pathology.

News flash !! Financial freedom can also be attained elsewhere. It can be harder with no degree and the usual shortcomings of a typical poker professional. This doesn't mean poker is the best job for you but rather you fail to do (and understand) what is neccessary to meet the requirements to be successful elsewhere. People who think they are old at 30 should start digging.

Not everyone reading is a success story.

On November 17 2014 04:07 cariadon wrote: You are so stubborn Lem0n it is ridiculous. There is no arguing with you because you just tunnel-vision what you believe is true.

that's called being human and for that I'm not apologizing :D

I got bigredhoss's point but yeah in no job I had before did joining a social group, helping people spending time with friends or reading a book feel like something I am doing for the job as it does in poker as it leads to emotional stability, less tilt avoids the dreaded burnout etc etc. For me I attempt to lead a balanced lifestyle to enable poker and play poker to enable a balanced lifestyle.

If you can name specific careers that are like this (besides sales really - it's in many ways similar. Including the variance and downswings. And many people not understanding/accepting what you do) I'd be grateful actually

the social environment on your work place is largely dependent on your work place, not your career. From what you've written though, I've always had the impression that "university" is the thing you should have been aiming for, and then you should have immersed yourself in social student activities (there are always a lot.)

On November 16 2014 15:44 ClouD87 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 16 2014 12:43 mnj wrote:   On November 15 2014 08:22 ClouD87 wrote:   On November 15 2014 03:52 bigredhoss wrote: sure, but there's plenty of jobs where rewards are correlated with effort/ability. I am not sure what kind of skewed experience you had, but real world does not really work like that. In fact jobs like poker that reward your ability right away are very rare and only for a certain segment of the population. In case you didn't notice the world is built mostly to accomodate people with mediocre expectations, and jobs also reflect that. i'd be surprised if anyone on this forum agreed with your sentiment that "poker rewards your ability right away" and from my own experience thinking that having a job that rewards your ability at the speed poker does is easily achievable sounds crazy to me.

there's no doubt in my mind that anyone who is successful at this game, anyone whos ever grinded 50k+/yr could be a successful lawyer, doctor, banker, consultant etc.

it's not the job that makes the person successful...it's the person. i'm surprised that this point is so confused in this thread.

lastly i was merely pointing out that your impression that poker somehow directly correlated with effort put in, fails to incorporate any possibility of variance and also somehow fails to apply to life outside of poker.

On November 17 2014 21:49 mnj wrote: Show nested quote + On November 16 2014 15:44 ClouD87 wrote:   On November 16 2014 12:43 mnj wrote:   On November 15 2014 08:22 ClouD87 wrote:   On November 15 2014 03:52 bigredhoss wrote: sure, but there's plenty of jobs where rewards are correlated with effort/ability. I am not sure what kind of skewed experience you had, but real world does not really work like that. In fact jobs like poker that reward your ability right away are very rare and only for a certain segment of the population. In case you didn't notice the world is built mostly to accomodate people with mediocre expectations, and jobs also reflect that. i'd be surprised if anyone on this forum agreed with your sentiment that "poker rewards your ability right away" and from my own experience thinking that having a job that rewards your ability at the speed poker does is easily achievable sounds crazy to me. there's no doubt in my mind that anyone who is successful at this game, anyone whos ever grinded 50k+/yr could be a successful lawyer, doctor, banker, consultant etc. it's not the job that makes the person successful...it's the person. i'm surprised that this point is so confused in this thread. lastly i was merely pointing out that your impression that poker somehow directly correlated with effort put in, fails to incorporate any possibility of variance and also somehow fails to apply to life outside of poker.

I agree with this, if you truly succeeded in poker you will cruise in many other careers

On November 17 2014 04:59 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Show nested quote + On November 17 2014 04:07 cariadon wrote: You are so stubborn Lem0n it is ridiculous. There is no arguing with you because you just tunnel-vision what you believe is true. that's called being human and for that I'm not apologizing :D I got bigredhoss's point but yeah in no job I had before did joining a social group, helping people spending time with friends or reading a book feel like something I am doing for the job as it does in poker as it leads to emotional stability, less tilt avoids the dreaded burnout etc etc. For me I attempt to lead a balanced lifestyle to enable poker and play poker to enable a balanced lifestyle. If you can name specific careers that are like this (besides sales really - it's in many ways similar. Including the variance and downswings. And many people not understanding/accepting what you do) I'd be grateful actually

Careers like what exactly ? Variance and downswings are usually among things to avoid when thinking about an ideal job. You can explain better and more clearly what it is a poker player does and how he is able to make money. You don't need others approval for your career choice, only you yourself need to be happy with it.

Pretty much any specialists job has intricacies exclusive to that profession. You can't just start being a surgeon, architect, crane operator, w/e start tomorrow. Being a specialist means you know and are able to execute something most can't, welcome to the minority. Your problems are your own, created by yourself. You don't have kids and you don't have true responsibility, i'd say your problems are miniscule on a grand scale of things.

You can get fired 10 years before retirement age without suspecting it (i.e.: company sold). And what do you do with all you learnt in the productive years after retirement age if you were too specialized? I have long-living genes, so I have to choose activities I want to do for the rest of my life with the least restrictions.
As for university I studied math and after graduation 30 year old is the limit age to get paid 500 usd/m to do a Phd in this country that usually last 4, 5 years. 35 is the limit to start a research job unless you're brilliant and I'll never get paid more than 2K/m. I can only aim for teaching as my backup plan for 1K/m max that I'll manage to optimize my retirement pension.
Other things I like are related to body movement but I never developed my body to get a living with it. So Its not that I feel old, but I think Im old for other things I know I like.

On November 13 2014 20:38 bigredhoss wrote: you guys might be interested in terrence chan's "life after poker" podcast. i haven't listened to the episode with matt hawrilenko (working on PhD in clinical psychology) yet, but i thought the one with jason strasser (worked at morgan stanley and recently founded his own hedge fund) was good. http://lifeafterpoker.libsyn.com/

this was really good (the one with strassa)

highly recommend listening

On November 17 2014 02:24 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Show nested quote + On November 16 2014 18:05 bigredhoss wrote:   On November 16 2014 16:58 LemOn[5thF] wrote:   On November 16 2014 15:44 ClouD87 wrote:   On November 16 2014 12:43 mnj wrote:   On November 15 2014 08:22 ClouD87 wrote:   On November 15 2014 03:52 bigredhoss wrote: sure, but there's plenty of jobs where rewards are correlated with effort/ability. I am not sure what kind of skewed experience you had, but real world does not really work like that. In fact jobs like poker that reward your ability right away are very rare and only for a certain segment of the population. In case you didn't notice the world is built mostly to accomodate people with mediocre expectations, and jobs also reflect that. i'd be surprised if anyone on this forum agreed with your sentiment that "poker rewards your ability right away" It really does compared to many other business that take years to build up even if you are incredibly competent. Also the results are proportional to the volume played aswell so you can decide to go at your own pace, wether you prefer to do it slowly and taking your time or quickly by hammering yourself with playtime and study. By the way I recognize many people have a different opinion here and I will not say I am 100% correct, but I actually traveled the world a lot and I've met lots of people, and from my own experience thinking that having a job that rewards your ability at the speed poker does is easily achievable sounds crazy to me. I haven't studied at university and instead had a couple jobs as a manager before aswell in esports fields in Italy (for an esports journal and team manager-esports events) and I believe most people who didn't actually work a standard bullshit job won't understand how dehumanizing and frustrating it is and how much of a waste of time it feels. My dad is a manager at a big italian bank in Milan and he could get me a lifetime job there with the possibility of promotions and improvement, but I will never choose an uninteresting job that forces me to deal with frustrated people and I will never ever suggest anyone to do that choice. I believe a person can't be happy being stale and without improvement, you always have to do something that challenges you somehow or you start to die inside no matter how young you are. You might disagree with me on this but I still perceive the negativity around poker in this forum as childish and pointless since nobody can objectively say it's a bad job in any circumstance. Fulfillment doesn't come from growth at work only. There are a lot of people in jobs with very slow or none progression that are very happy/satisfied because they simply love what they are doing, have a great collective of people around them, or use their jobs just means for their devotion to family, or healthy living or their own projects outside work. If with the right approach and mindfulness monks can lead very enriching lives in a Buddhist monastery then sure as hell it's possible in a regular job. I for one decided to give poker a shot after I worked for years and studied abroad till I was 25, and without it I would not come back to my home country and reconnected with my family and people I love, I wouldn't drop 20kg in a year and wouldn't read all these amazing books, dabbled into psychology, buddhism and workouts. Like if I quit right now then despite my shortcomings I'd remember the year I only played as one of the best years of my life. But you can't be surprised at people who quit their education early, instead of getting real life connections when they have the most energy in their 19s and early 20s sat at home, didn't use poker as an opportunity for bettering themselves but as just an easy way to make money and then inevitably burned out. And that'll be most people here who followed the path of Starcraft=>Uni/(often quit)=>poker. i doubt your last paragraph applies to most people who advise against starting poker as a career in 2014. poker could be the best thing to ever happen to someone in 2005 (even for reasons besides the easy money), that doesn't mean they shouldn't recommend people avoid it as a career today. + Show Spoiler + also confirmed impossible to lose weight, read, or network without poker I might be wrong, but it does seem that way - how many people here finished university had a career and then moved into poker really? The good things I talk about affect your performance way faster in poker than other jobs. It really seems that everything I do in life affects my ev at the tables. Where in finance when I came home I could play dota all the time, eat junk food watch bs shows be mediocre and at the end of the day get paid the same with my normalized quarterly bonus because I fit that 85% people in the bell curve. You can optimise your time way better in poker too - simply work when you are at your best, go to the gym or hang out with friends when you aren't feeling like playing. Where in a normal job I'd have to clock my hours in where if I just got up went to the gym, took a nap then returned I'd get way more accomplished that day. The social aspect also requires a lot of effort in poker where others free roll in this aspect. It really seems to me most people squandered the potential poker gives them - and didn't see things like using the freedom to socialize etc. I think lefort summed it up well: I like his advice that every time you run bad or cant get action you get your ass to the gym. ofc its far from a dream job for most people poker's not as grim as you guys make it out to be :D

this is what the sermons at church look like

to be fair, i don't have a problem with the slides lemon posted. they seem like pretty good advice for someone pursuing poker. it's just not really a counter-argument to the point that trying to make it your profession in 2014 is ill-advised for anyone without very substantial previous results.